Transcript generated from the episode’s audio. Speaker names are identified from the context of the conversation rather than from recorded speaker data, and automatic transcription may misspell names and terminology. Please refer to the video for the authoritative version.

David Raubach: I want to thank you for joining us on today’s episode of the Cancer Project podcast. We’re really privileged to have Elissa Kalver here with us. She is a breast cancer thriver and we’re going to talk about what that means. She is someone who was diagnosed with cancer back in 2021 and has gone through many rounds of chemotherapy and other treatments and through this through the process of going through treatment has learned a lot about herself and patients and what they need and also started a nonprofit to help patients coming behind her as they navigate chemotherapy and just the whole world of cancer survivorship and thrivership. So Elissa, thank you for joining us today.

Elissa Kalver: Thanks for having me.

David Raubach: So just tell us where you are. I know we just talked about that, but tell us where you’re at today.

Elissa Kalver: Yes. So, I live in LA. I’ve been here 17 years. You were just talking about originally from Boston, so I guess, you know, still in between where I say I’m from, but I think I’ll always be from Boston, right? And, it’s been actually really nice having so much family and community coast to coast. I feel like that’s been a big trend in a lot of the support and amazing things we’ve been able to accomplish over the past 5 years.

David Raubach: So, you still go back, you still have family back in Boston.

Elissa Kalver: Yeah. And East Coast in general. And I love being able to go visit back in Boston, New York. And then I love being able to come home to the warm weather of LA.

David Raubach: Yeah, exactly. I think once you’re an East Coaster, you’re never not an East Coaster. So, that never goes away.

Elissa Kalver: Yeah. I stopped saying wicked a long time ago, but like —

David Raubach: Yeah, that’s true. You don’t really have the Boston accent, so that’s kind of —

Elissa Kalver: Yeah, that’s gone away.

David Raubach: So, you — I understand you were a college athlete.

Elissa Kalver: Mhm.

David Raubach: So, what was your sport?

Elissa Kalver: I played field hockey. And in high school, I played field hockey, ice hockey, and lacrosse. And it was really that I became a field hockey goalie, and then you kind of get sucked in then to being a goalie for everything else. But field hockey was my sport. I played in Europe and national tournaments and recruited to play in college. And then it was my sophomore year, well freshman year of college, I tore my ACL and meniscus and then sophomore year I tore my shoulder. So that was my first experience with knowing what it’s like to just be completely knocked down.

David Raubach: Yeah. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Field hockey is it seems pretty physical.

Elissa Kalver: Yeah. Well, field hockey like you can’t like check people and stuff. I was a goalie, so, you know, get hit by a ball, you know, or be running towards a ball. But, it was team sports in general is like how I lived my life. I would always say like when I was first diagnosed with cancer, like there’s no I in cancer. And throughout my career too, mainly always been in sales and financial services and marketing and like just everything in life that I do, I like doing it together with other people.

David Raubach: Yeah. So that’s the piece where like field hockey is, you know, that type of feel. Field hockey, lacrosse, ice hockey, like I was more of a tennis player originally growing up. And in adult life, too, it’s much easier to pick up a tennis racket and go play. But I really just craved that like being on the field with, you know, 11 of us at a time or, you know, which depending on the sport.

Elissa Kalver: Yeah. It was just — yeah. That’s like really where I get excited.

David Raubach: Yeah. So, and then where did you go to college?

Elissa Kalver: I went to Babson College outside of Boston.

David Raubach: Yeah.

Elissa Kalver: Which a lot of people out in LA don’t know as well, but we’ve gotten a lot of news the past few years of being like the number two college in America. But it’s most known for business and entrepreneurship. I mean, it’s really only known for business and entrepreneurship. Really small school and it’s been amazing like in having big ideas having people to take those big ideas to that doesn’t see them as crazy or you know it’s like the creator of the Ring doorbell Jamie Siminoff went to Babson the founders of Bombas socks one of our first partners went to Babson so it’s exciting company to be able to grow ideas with.

David Raubach: Okay and so then what took you out to LA so you said you’ve been out there about 17 years.

Elissa Kalver: Yeah so I graduated from Babson in 2009 and like the summer going into junior year, I heard about this internship program in LA and I was just like that sounds cool to just go live in LA for the summer. So I lived at UCLA for the summer and interned in PR and marketing for BMI, the music company. And I was like, this is awesome. It’s warm all year long. So graduating in 2009, we’re like I all my friends who were accountants had jobs. Other than that, it was definitely a tough market. And I was like, you know, I was like, well, if I’m going to do something, why not go do it where it’s warm? So I just booked a one-way ticket and I stayed with a friend from college who’s from Westwood near UCLA, and I’ve been here ever since. And luckily, my husband did the similar thing. We were acquaintances from working at the Apple Store in Boston during college. He went to Berkeley College of Music and he also just came out and we became best friends. And that’s probably why I ended up staying cuz I don’t work in entertainment or music or any of that anymore.

David Raubach: Yeah.

Elissa Kalver: But yeah, it’s just the community out here. We kind of have our East Coast community on the West Coast anyway, too.

David Raubach: Yeah, that’s great. And so tell us about your family. So you your husband I know you have at least one daughter.

Elissa Kalver: Yes. Yes. So I’ve got Ellie is my six-year-old now who was just turning one a few days after my original diagnosis. So, she’s a huge part of my life and story as any child is. But definitely in a really, you know, tough way, but in a really special way, and I feel so grateful that we had her before getting diagnosed. So, made a perfect one and grateful that she exists.

David Raubach: Yeah. Yeah. I’ve got I have four daughters.

Elissa Kalver: Wow.

David Raubach: Seven. Seven, five, four, and one. So, it’s a little crazy at the house. I’ll say that.

Elissa Kalver: Oh, wow. Much respect. That like gives girl dad a whole other level.

David Raubach: Yeah, I’ve got a I’ve got the girl dad hat and you know they’re a lot of fun. So it’s a wild house. We have a good time though. So —

Elissa Kalver: Oh, I bet. You just got to embrace it.

David Raubach: Totally. I know. So, let’s talk about your diagnosis because I guess this was in July of 2021 and you were 34 years old. You mentioned that this was right after your daughter’s birth or your daughter was born. So this is right before her first birthday.

Elissa Kalver: Yeah.

David Raubach: So you’re in — yeah. So what — just talk us through that process, how you found out that you had cancer, just kind of that those initial stages as you’re finding out this journey that you’re about to go on.

Elissa Kalver: Yeah. Well, it was, you know, I was pregnant during the pandemic and had Ellie and that was — it ended up being really special that we did have our time to ourselves. And I mean, you’ve done this four times, so I’m sure you’ve had different experiences with how, you know, much family you want or don’t want at the time. I mean, we really were — we’re disappointed that our family couldn’t come out and visit us. But it gave us time to really create our family the way that we wanted to. And when she was only two months old, we actually drove cross country with her to Boston and Rhode Island where my husband’s from.

David Raubach: Oh, wow.

Elissa Kalver: So that she could meet, you know, all of her grandparents and cousins and stuff. So throughout that, you know, after pregnancy, I was fortunately — I had a good pregnancy and birth and all that. And then, you know, I started having some weird pains and I started playing tennis again, which was like perfect for during the pandemic. And in general, that was like the sport, you know, I’m not going to go grab all my field hockey equipment. In everyday life, get together, I just want to be able to go play.

David Raubach: Yeah. You could socially distance playing tennis, I guess.

Elissa Kalver: Yeah. And like I mean, you know, it’s a lot less people you need to coordinate. You know, you’re either doing singles and or doubles. You don’t need like teams of people to come out. And so I was playing and every time I would go to play, like 20 minutes into playing, my feet would go completely numb and it was like I couldn’t even keep sneakers on. I was like having all this inflammation. And so I kept thinking it was like plantar fasciitis or other things. And then, you know, I was getting a lot of blood work and proactive about it and thinking like maybe I have like some form of arthritis or like what could this be? And since everything seemed normal, just kind of got chalked up to I just had a baby, you know, and yeah, there are things that can happen from that. I don’t believe anything was missed or anything like that. I did have a breast like a mammogram. No, a breast exam. Sorry, I forgot.

David Raubach: Oh, just a breast. Yeah. Yeah.

Elissa Kalver: Because you — I’m 34 at the time. I’m 39 now. So, I’m technically not even at the age for recommended mammograms yet, right? And but I had a breast exam just like as a part of a full workup and they didn’t feel anything. I didn’t feel anything. And then it was a couple months after that exam that luckily my husband just like jokingly copped a feel. I was changing and it was just like he felt something. He was like that’s weird. I haven’t felt that before. Like do you feel that? And then I was like, I don’t know. And then he was immediately like, I’m sure it’s nothing. Like, you know, and I wasn’t worried. Like, I don’t have any family history of breast cancer. And you know, it felt like a clogged milk duct. And luckily, I knew that it wasn’t cuz I wasn’t breastfeeding anymore. And coincidentally, or not so coincidentally, I had a pretty hard time breastfeeding, which in hindsight makes a lot of sense.

David Raubach: Yeah. Cuz a lot of the like symptoms of having breast cancer makes that harder.

Elissa Kalver: But that was when I went to get it checked out. I took it seriously in that like it was easy enough to make an appointment and go do it, but I didn’t take it so seriously that like I actually thought it was a problem. And so when I went into the doctor, they did the breast exam again, they felt that lump and then they felt a lump in my armpit, which I always say like in hindsight, not a great sign. But I didn’t know like I didn’t understand lymph nodes and other stuff that could be there. So then I got, you know, really quickly into mammogram, ultrasound, and then we did ultrasound guided biopsy. And it was after that where like you can’t, you can only go so fast, right? Cuz the biopsies take a little bit of time. And I got the phone call that they were both malignant. And that was how they worded it. Like unfortunately, they’re both malignant. So I was like, are you telling me that I have breast cancer?

David Raubach: Right. Right.

Elissa Kalver: And it’s like a guy I’ve never spoken to before and will never speak to again. I have no idea who it was. The person who did my biopsies in that day. And that kind of started this whole like, you know, not only figuring out what my identity is as a cancer thriver survivor, patient, like whatever that looks like, but then also developing this huge understanding, you know, of cancer in general that I thought I understood. I mean, my mother-in-law is like 13 years in remission from stage 4 non-Hodgkin’s lymphoma. She’s doing amazing. And when she was originally diagnosed, my husband and I started doing races with Leukemia & Lymphoma Society, now Blood Cancer United. And I felt like I met so many people with cancer and was so immersed in the community that I understood it.

Elissa Kalver: And I really the main thing that I just did not understand till I had it and I think is still something I constantly remind myself about and hope to remind others is that cancer is not one thing. Breast cancer is not one thing. Even metastatic breast cancer is not one thing. Like it’s literally a fingerprint. And it is so different. Like you know always joke like when people are like oh yeah like my friend’s brother’s sisters cousins aunt has exactly what you have. And it’s like, you probably don’t even understand what she has. And you probably don’t understand what I have. And just learning how unique we are in this really was what pushed me so much to do what I’m doing.

Elissa Kalver: And a lot of, you know, I’m sure we’ll go into with We Got This.org and my nonprofit was I realized like it wasn’t just breast cancer. Like obviously I’m a little biased towards like wanting there to be research more for metastatic breast cancer and stuff like that because that’s keeping me alive. But like I started realizing that I didn’t just identify with the one community of my one type of cancer. Like if anything, I identified more with other stage four cancers than I do with early stage breast cancer. Like the treatments are just totally different. You know I have chemo tomorrow. I live with a port forever. Like these things are just different and I have hair. It’s confusing to people, you know, right?

Elissa Kalver: And so that realization was, you know, definitely a roller coaster at first of realizing like I have a type of cancer that I’m going to have for the rest of my life. And the odds are that I’m going to die from this cancer. You know, like it’s not treat it’s not curable. It’s treatable. And you know, the averages at that time were not so great. And the more that I’ve lived through that, I realized like how amazing it is to have this knowledge of understanding how different we are. And I feel like that’s enhanced my life, how empathetic I can be towards other people, my relationships in a way that’s like really just made my lens completely different.

David Raubach: What was the point in time that you found out just how serious the diagnosis was? Cuz you said the first call they just said malignant. They didn’t even say the word cancer. Yeah. So, how did you find out kind of the extent of the diagnosis?

Elissa Kalver: Yeah. So, they kind of just like, you know, called me, dropped the bomb, and then were like, “All right, someone will be in touch.” I’m like, “What?” Yeah. So, oh my gosh. I knew at that point that I had cancer. I’m still picturing that breast cancer means that I’m going to remove my breasts and like this is going to be a really messed up period of time and then we’re going to move on. And so then it was later that day I really pushed to get to speak to a doctor. So they connected me with a surgeon and I spoke to them and they had more results back by then that I was HER2-positive breast cancer which I’m like what the hell does that mean?

Elissa Kalver: So for people who do know I’m HER2-positive which is you know a specific you know has — I’m saying this so jumbled for some reason — HER2-positive is the type of mutation I have and then ER and PR like hormone positive or negative is another component which I’m negative in I think a lot of people picture everyone being hormone positive but hormones are not like my cancer is not affected by that so that totally changes what type of treatments I have what type of surgeries I have. And then also in addition to that, like if you have a genetic mutation would also change whether or not you’re going to have certain surgeries or other treatments. So at this point, all I knew was that because it came back HER2-positive, I was for sure doing chemo.

Elissa Kalver: And it was when the doctor over the phone said that to me of like, well, you know, so we’ll start out with doing, you know, these six to eight rounds be about four months of chemo. And I paused and I was like, “Oh, wait.” Like, like I like have cancer. Like, yeah, I’m gonna be like a cancer patient. Like, I’m gonna be bald and I’m gonna like — and she’s like, “Yeah, you know, like we’re going to fight this.” And it was like even though I think the way she said it was totally fine and it was encouraging hearing her be encouraging was like, “Wait, I need to be encouraged right now.” Like even though I knew that I had cancer, I just I guess I just like had this one vision or I just was so naive to it of what it would be. And that was the moment that it sunk in for me. I didn’t know yet that it was also in my liver and lower spine and that I was stage four.

Elissa Kalver: So at this point when it’s in your lymph nodes, you know, it’s at least probably stage two or three because it’s spread outside the breast. But you know at that point it can still be very treatable you know mostly curable like a lot of those you know and so we went — after that was my PET scan and we went in for the results of the PET scan and I remember the doctor I’m sitting there with my husband and we thought we were just like kind of talking about the protocol for chemo and she like sits down and she just gets like really serious and she’s like so we got your PET scan results back and I’m really concerned. And she just kept saying that like I’m really concerned.

Elissa Kalver: And so in my head I’m kind of like what are you concerned about? Like stop saying that. Like just tell me. And I see Eric, my husband, next to me getting just like really pale and like you know and we’re digesting this in very different ways where I’m like feeling like I’m on like the front lines of like going to war and I’m like just like tell me what we’re doing and I’m going to do it kind of thing. And so she pulled up the PET scan and when I saw and she was explaining that like everything lit up would potentially be cancer. And that’s really like I always refer back to this moment because that’s when I understood that cancer was so much more complex than we think it is.

Elissa Kalver: Like when people say things like why don’t we have a cure for cancer yet? And it’s like which cancer? Cuz we do have cures for some cancers. And then like what there’s not one thing, right? And so seeing that image of more cancer in light in my liver than there were in my breast was like just so upside down confusing to me. And that’s when my husband started like hyperventilating next to me. They got him a paper bag. I’m like trying to figure out like what this means. You know, she’s telling us that we should like go take a quick vacation before I start chemo. And like I’m trying to understand if she’s telling me that I’m going to die. Like because of the way she was talking was like she was the encouraging piece that I kept being like why do you have to be like are you doing that because like I have like a prognosis that like gives me you know time to live.

Elissa Kalver: So learning more down the road with that and here I am 5 years later still getting infusions every 3 weeks. You know, there are so many treatments and there are so many ways that we react to them. And that’s why it’s a really hard balance letting people know how serious it is and how deadly it still is while also making sure people know that like we can live with this. Like it’s what happened to me, what is happening to me is a lot of like most people’s worst nightmare. And if this were years ago or treatment’s not working a certain way, like I would have been dead by now. And I’m not. And I have not exhausted all lines of treatments and there’s constantly more clinical trials coming out.

Elissa Kalver: And realizing that differentiation made me not identify just with being a breast cancer patient. It made me identify with being a cancer patient. And I think that’s a big differentiation that I’ve really noticed a lot more lately like being this far into thrivership or survivorship or whatever people identify as. Like it’s — we’re all so unique and if we don’t give ourselves credit for that and understand that and give that grace to others I think we really miss the mark on how we support other people and how we support ourselves.

David Raubach: So talk about that word thriver because we’ve brought that up a few times. How do you define that or what’s the significance of using the word cancer thriver versus cancer survivor or something else?

Elissa Kalver: Sure. So, you know, right early on, you’re starting to hear these words like even like malignant or HER2-positive or, you know, and there’s certain stuff that’s medical and then there’s certain stuff that has to do with like identity. And I started learning more about metastatic community. Metastatic nonprofits like the main one being METAvivor and you know METAvivor being a mix of metastatic with survivor or thriver and they — their narrative is around you know the metastatic community thriving. You know we haven’t survived cancer like I have not survived cancer. And if you say that to the average person, most people want to fix that. And so if you say like, “Well, I haven’t survived. Like, I’m still living with a terminal illness.” They’ll be like, “Well, no, you’re going to beat it. Like, I believe in miracles or this or that.”

Elissa Kalver: And it’s like, whatever makes you feel best. I get it. But like, I don’t need that. Like, it’s okay. It’s okay that I haven’t survived it because like I have a care team and a plan and I’m living and I’m thriving. Like to me survival is the piece of just staying alive. And that is a big piece, right? Like we don’t want to die. So survival is staying alive. And to me thriving is living. And I really think of it as 50/50. And maybe even the thriving part being more important because I’ve experienced what it’s like to be alive and surviving but not getting to live. And that is just as bad as dying in my opinion.

David Raubach: Yeah.

Elissa Kalver: And so I always compare it to before cancer or like someone who doesn’t have cancer, would you have made your goal every day to survive it? Like with the bar that you set for yourself, finish the day and be like, I’m alive. Yeah, I won. Like no, that like there’s so much more to our lives than just getting through the day. Like then what’s the point of living? And so I really felt like this narrative around it, which like not offended by the word survivor and I still use it in different contexts and I think it still is like a badass sounding word and all that but like that wasn’t my identity. Like I don’t — and that wasn’t my goal and I felt like lowering the bar for myself and other people in that way was doing such a disservice to not only the cancer community but like any community like any chronic illness, people going through fertility, diabetes, people just living life, you know, like any hard time big or small like we should want to make the goal to live and thrive through it. So that’s why thriver.

David Raubach: Yeah. And that’s amazing. I love that. And so I want to — you talked about, you’ve kind of touched on this a little bit, so I have a quote. This is your quote, and then I’m going to let you kind of talk about this. So, success is embracing every moment, celebrating the wins, big and small, and living a life that is full regardless of circumstances. That’s what I call a win. That’s what I call beating cancer. And I think one of the things you’ve talked about is redefining what we mean by beating cancer. So, just talk a little bit about that quote and just the phrase beating cancer and how we should be thinking about that.

Elissa Kalver: Well, thanks for bringing that up and finding it. You have a lot of great quotes.

David Raubach: I’ve got some more in here.

Elissa Kalver: Oh, wow. I’m so excited. Yeah, you know, that was the reaction like I was saying when people are like, “Well, no, you’re going to beat it. You know, miracles happen every day and all this stuff.” And I started thinking like from getting so fatigued from hearing that of like, well, when people say that like what are they considering beating it? Like are we only beating cancer if someone says that we’re in remission or cured? Like and then what’s really the difference on that? Like certain cancers like my mother-in-law having non-Hodgkin’s lymphoma once you hit 5 years they consider you cured. But what changes from that 365th day of your fourth year to that first day of year five, right?

Elissa Kalver: Like it’s based on data and science and it makes sense, but I’m also like I don’t need to have that definition to beat it. I’m beating it by living by like choosing how I’m doing my treatment and running my life. And like is every day great? Of course not. Like I’ve gone through some incredibly difficult times with treatment and all of that. But I feel like even through that I’m beating it because I’m pulling together the care team that I feel comfortable with. And I’ve had care teams that I’m not comfortable with. And I’m finding different ways to live my life just like with cancer. I don’t — I was actually talking about this earlier with a fellow thriver of how I don’t — a lot of people are like don’t call yourself a patient. Don’t like you don’t have to like think of yourself in this way or that and you know cancer doesn’t define you, right?

Elissa Kalver: And it’s like but cancer kind of does define me in the way that I’ve wanted it to define me. Like my life revolves around me advocating and living with cancer and like I hate that I have cancer and I wish that I didn’t and I would pick the alternative any day. But if I’m going to have it, I love the way that I’m defining myself with it. And I think that we’ve created that as a negative thing because of how we’re interpreting it. But if being a — I say a lot of times lately I’ll say that I’m a cancer patient in certain things and I explained this recently of how because a lot of people don’t like the word patient and I agree with that. It’s my least favorite term.

Elissa Kalver: But if I don’t say patient, people get confused when I say that I have stage four breast cancer because I don’t look like it, right? I look so good. I have long hair and I look healthy, you know? And I feel that it’s really important for people to know that I’m still a patient. Like I’m this still runs my life and I can still die from this. I still have a lot of side effects and things I go through this, but I also like am able to live fully and live a very good quality of life, you know, depending on the timing of certain treatments and we balance that all out. So to me, beating cancer is making that definition for yourself and like what aspects are you willing to do or not.

Elissa Kalver: I’ll say sometimes with my oncologist, she’ll check in like if I’m on new treatment or that, like what side effects or like how’s this? And I’m like, well, you know, I have this issue, but like it’s not that bad. I can handle it. And she paused me at one point, this is like over a year ago, and she was like, I will let you know when you need to tough it out.

David Raubach: Yeah.

Elissa Kalver: She’s like, we are not there.

David Raubach: Yeah.

Elissa Kalver: So, she’s like, if something is at all bothersome, we can treat that symptom or look at options. And if things are too bothersome, we can switch treatments. And like that’s a reminder that I’ve needed in this process because we go into it with the survivor mentality of like I’m going to do whatever it takes to survive this. And I realized that is so unfair to us. And I don’t think that’s what our family and friends want us to do. Like I don’t think that they want us to just be a shell of ourselves physically here. I think that they want to get to live life with us. And if not, then we need to have a conversation with them or we need to move on from because I know that’s what I want for everyone else, too. And so that was a big turning point for me that I’ve really leaned into and that’s why I advocate so much around thriving or whatever that equivalent term or feeling is for you.

David Raubach: Yeah. So, talk about because I’m sure there’s people that are going to be listening to this thinking, well, I’m five years out of or I’m five years into a thrive journey and dealing with metastatic breast cancer and they’re wondering what treatments you’re doing today or maybe what you’ve been doing the last year or two. So, just describe kind of clinically where you’re at.

Elissa Kalver: So, I’m in a weird spot right now to be honest. Like weird in a good way, but weird in a weird way. With metastatic you know cancer and breast cancer specifically. I can’t speak to all others but you typically are always on treatment. I mean I can’t just stop treatment because it’s assumed that I have cancer cells throughout my body. We also can’t just remove my breasts and get rid of the cancer because frankly cancer in your breast does not kill you. You do not die from early stage breast cancer. You almost only die from stage four. And I say almost because it’s like I think the statistic is like 99%. But I think even that like there’s probably nuance there that’s not like you die from metastatic breast cancer. You die when it spreads outside. Sorry, I’ve proven that point I think too hard.

David Raubach: No, it’s true though. That’s a good point. Yeah. Yeah. A lot of people don’t realize that.

Elissa Kalver: And the piece with that of understanding that is a really important distinction because the goal is not necessarily remission. Like that’s not a term. It depends on who you ask. Like that’s not a term I would ever use. The goal is stability and not having new growth and keeping it under control. So there’s been times where I’ve knowingly had like tumors in my breast that I could feel and we were like leaving that for like several more months. And that’s so hard even for me to understand, but especially for me to explain to people is it’s not that like your expectation of beating it or what your goal is drastically changes with it.

Elissa Kalver: And so understanding that whether it’s you and I’m saying this like even reminding myself so even if you’re someone listening who’s in my position, I think we need to remind ourselves too and we need to educate people so that they understand. So treatments that I did originally like TCHP which is Taxotere carboplatin Herceptin and Perjeta which turned out was kind of an out of date protocol. So in my third round I got another opinion and dropped the carboplatin. It was on Taxol, Herceptin, and Perjeta. With those I did a total of eight rounds. Like you can only do eight rounds. Like that’s not a combination that you stay on for well I shouldn’t even say that because sometimes now I think they are using tax more but in that scenario I was doing eight rounds and that was all I was doing before switching and I was in the mode of like stereotypical cancer right bald sick all that kind of stuff. And that’s an aggressive — it’s an aggressive treatment.

David Raubach: Yeah. Yeah. Exactly.

Elissa Kalver: And that’s where switching off like dropping the carboplatin was when I first understood that like we’re not treating my cancer for curative intent. We’re not trying to cure my cancer. We’re trying to control it and eliminate as much as we can. And there’s a big differentiation there because going into it, I really was like, I’ll do anything I have to. But you — even if you’re the toughest person in the world and you need you feel like you need to prove yourself it’s not the best result like because you could end up causing a lot of other issues for yourself and the amount of time that you have to live with this and be on treatments. So like it’s a lot of this combined can be counterintuitive to what we always thought was the case.

Elissa Kalver: After that I went on maintenance with Herceptin Perjeta which I’m very lucky that I’m treated at UCLA where Dr. Slamon who invented Herceptin is still there. Like you know everyone has their celebrity crushes or not crush I should say everyone has their celebrity fans. Like I mean I haven’t met him yet. I heard he was my old neighbor and didn’t realize but like man I’m like oh my god the guy who like is saving my life and a lot of my friends lives like I go to the hospital he’s at how cool.

David Raubach: Yeah.

Elissa Kalver: And so I was on that maintenance and then I ended up with a recurrence in my left breast and that’s when I got two tumors in my brain and that’s when I thought I was dying because like all I’ve heard when you get cancer in your brain like that’s it. But it really depends on what type of cancer the amount of treatments — now it’s unbelievable like I have a full response from brain tumors and I’ve never had brain surgery like through chemo and radiation like we were able to eliminate that. So then after that was when I was in my hardest treatment. It was a drug called Enhertu and it was a part of a clinical trial mixed with tucatinib or Tukysa and both drugs were FDA approved but not approved in combination for breast cancer.

Elissa Kalver: So because I was in the trial for it, it was really regulated of how like I couldn’t just lower doses and I couldn’t take certain premeds for nausea because of like you know they have to control certain pieces and that was — I lasted six months on that. I had an unbelievable response like within the first couple months after my first scan showed the brain tumors 80% shrunk.

David Raubach: Wow.

Elissa Kalver: So I was like that was the version of understanding that I was staying alive and I was not afraid of physically dying. But I died like my soul was just a shell of who I was and I could not get out of bed without throwing up. I was getting my infusions every 3 weeks for at least two weeks. I was throwing up every morning and I just the amount of chronic pain and other stuff involved. So, I kept doing it. But with metastatic, the goal is to be on these treatments indefinitely. Like, you want to be on them as long as possible. And so, when I was on a treatment where I’m like, well, it’s working, but I don’t want to be on it, but like I don’t want it to fail, but I also don’t want to keep doing this. Like, what if I had to do this for another year or two years? People, you know, and now I don’t want anyone to be afraid by Enhertu, too.

Elissa Kalver: It’s a line of treatment I would 100% go back to. And you know, we’re talking this was four years ago. So like there’s way more protocol and nausea doses can be reduced all that. But learning to speak up, that’s when I really learned to speak up because I — that was the only way I could save my life of living was by being like I cannot do this. So I switched from that to a combination of oral chemo Xeloda, still on Herceptin, and still on tucatinib because that breaks the blood brain barrier. And that worked for 2 years with like really good quality of life. And so I look back and I’m like imagine if I just suffered through the Enhertu longer like I just had 2 years of getting to live so fully.

Elissa Kalver: So it eventually did. It did have another recurrence. And then I went on a drug called Kadcyla which worked well. Was not as fun on the quality of life side but not as bad as in Enhertu. Like I’ll take it. And it kept working, but I was having excessive nose bleeds and other stuff where I was becoming anemic and like needed blood transfusions. So, that’s a problem.

David Raubach: Yeah. Yeah.

Elissa Kalver: And so, we were switching off of it and there was a clinical trial available. This is like — this is only like I don’t know 11 months ago. And when you go into a clinical trial, you have to get tons of scans because they have to know where the baseline is. And so I did all my regular scans and my oncologist was like, “Hey, so we’re not seeing anything, which is great. So why don’t we do a breast MRI?” Because they have to have something to measure and like I’ve never had a breast MRI where it’s not like it’s so resized. I’m like, “If you want to be anxious, just have a breast MRI cuz it’ll show so much.” Like I’ve had so much benign stuff too that shows up on them. So I’m like, “Oh, cool. So we’ll do that.” I did the breast MRI and they still couldn’t see anything. So for the first time ever, I was considered no evidence of disease.

David Raubach: Wow.

Elissa Kalver: And it was like what? Like this is awesome, but then what do I do? Because I can’t. That’s the piece that I think a lot of people don’t realize. And for anyone listening who has metastatic cancer, like I see you. Like people then just think, oh, so you’re good. Like you’re good. You beat it, you know? And it’s like, well, no, because like, you know, I can’t just stop treatment cuz it’ll come back and like I have this forever. And so my oncologist was like, well, we can’t do the trial. But I also don’t want to put you back on like Enhertu. Like, I don’t want to put you on more toxic than maybe you need like so why don’t we try Herceptin and Perjeta again, even though I’d had the recurrence on that before. She’s like, “Worst case, like why don’t we scan you in like 10 weeks, and if we get a little bit of growth, it’s like, well, no big deal. Then I can do the clinical trial.” So, I was like, “I’m cool with that.” But we’ve been scanning every 10 to 12 weeks for the past 11 months, and I’m still NED.

David Raubach: Yeah, that’s amazing.

Elissa Kalver: It’s — and it’s really can’t explain a lot. What I will say is like my only explanation for why that I can think of that’s medicine related cuz it’s definitely not that I’ve changed anything of my diet life. Like I’m a healthy person but like I go out for beers at hockey games. Like I live my life normally and in moderation. But I started after the Xeloda I gained 50 pounds on that. That was like the only — one of the main side effects that was annoying but like can handle if I get to live my life. That became really painful when I went on Kadcyla. I was starting to have really chronic pain, tons of inflammation, and it just like couldn’t get that under control.

Elissa Kalver: And to anyone listening who’s like, “Oh, does she try turmeric?” Having turmeric supplements or too much of certain things like so example turmeric. If you take too much turmeric, which is very common and can happen because the supplement industry is not monitored. So if you do get supplements, make sure they’re NSF certified or third party tested. That can cause liver failure. And I’ve had more cancer in my liver than I’ve had in my breast. So, no, I was not overdosing on turmeric to try to get rid of my inflammation. But I met with a couple dietitians and my oncologist and started GLP-1. I started Zepbound and it took me — I delayed it a lot cuz I used to — I didn’t like no taboo about it for me. I just I used to own a gym. I played sports in college. I’ve run marathons. Like I know how to count macros and do fat loss.

Elissa Kalver: So, I was like, “Well, now I switch treatments. Why don’t I just like why don’t I just dial it in as tight as I can and like you know, and my oncologist said to me, which like if you haven’t figured out yet, I have like the best oncologist ever now.”

David Raubach: Yeah. Yeah. Right.

Elissa Kalver: She said to me, she’s like, “But like you’ve done that, so can we maybe just make this easier for you? Like, can we maybe just see if this works?” And you know when you look up stuff on GLP-1s and there’s like all this — like look there’s no medicine that’s for everyone like not everyone should go take chemo pills like you know like this is specific to your situation and even the dietitian the oncology dietitian was like you know once you take it then you can’t stop taking it you’ll gain the weight back and so I was like oh okay and like just the way it was presented was as a negative thing and so I said that to my oncologist, she’s like okay so like if you want to stop taking it then you gain the weight back and then we’re back at we started like why would we not try this and see what happens?

Elissa Kalver: So long story short I tried it. I started very low dose like 2 and 1/2 and I’m now like at five but I immediately gain — immediately lost 30 lbs and like I could feel that it was 30 lbs of inflammation. Like oh my god like my chronic back pain went away and just everything like I had so much more energy. I felt so much better and then I’m like, well, that’s probably because I had extra weight. But then I like for a period of time was like, you know, I’m not going to take it for a couple weeks. I’m curious like if I’ll gain the weight back and I didn’t really gain the weight back at all. But my pain came back. If I miss a dose or anything, my chronic pain comes back immediately.

Elissa Kalver: And the thing I want people to really understand with that is like there’s a big difference between want like weight loss for any other reason which like everything is your body and your choice like you know with that but it’s not just the weight it’s not just like oh if you eat less and lose weight like I was in a calorie deficit while gaining weight like there’s certain things that we cannot control and even with the weight loss and not having that the inflammation came right back. So, the reason why I spent so long talking about this is because it’s the only difference that I made and I have to believe that is not a coincidence that I’m NED on the most minimal treatment possible. That had failed previously for me in a lot less than the time that I’m in now. It failed after like 4 months and the only other medicine I’m taking is a GLP-1.

Elissa Kalver: So, I’m a big believer in that nothing is a generic recommendation. Like do not get medical advice from someone posting on Instagram or me talking about this. Like I do not want you to be like, “Oh, Elissa takes Zepbound and her cancer’s like gone. That’s what I’m going to go do.” Like no, that may or may not be the right thing for you.

David Raubach: Yeah.

Elissa Kalver: But it’s exciting to see that there are things out there that like we don’t even have mixed into the statistics. Like the statistics that are already progressing outward because I know people who you know are living so much longer with metastatic breast cancer that doesn’t take into account some of these like new things that like what if you know and I’ve had a hard time living in this NED moment. I’m trying to be better about it cuz I keep being like well this other shoe is going to drop eventually and I have to go back into treatment and so I’m like well even so like I’m going to start enjoying this. I mean, I have, you know, I live life fully, but like really enjoying it. Like really accepting that like, oh, maybe this will be what it is. And if it isn’t, I can handle that disappointment. Like, because I think being realistic allows us to live more because we’re setting ourselves up for success, whatever that might look like.

David Raubach: That is absolutely fascinating to me. Because we actually did a blog post or a vlog about two studies that got published within the last year that one of the studies looked at — I think it was Cleveland Clinic, but we’ll post the actual studies in the link to the podcast, but — and what they were looking at was disease progression and they found a correlation between patients that were on GLP-1s having — they had less progression from like stage two to stage three or stage three to stage four. And then a different study was UPenn looked at it was like 11,000 patients that were screening for breast cancer and there was a lower incidence rate of breast cancer for the patients that were regularly taking GLP-1s versus ones that weren’t.

David Raubach: And so there’s not — I mean those are just — those are population studies. They’re not randomized. They’re not — it’s not level one evidence. It’s observational. There’s still a lot more research that needs to be done, but you’re starting to see this kind of like and then stories like yours where you’re starting to see more and more come out. It’s like where there’s smoke, there’s fire, you know, there’s like a lot of smoke around the impact that GLP-1s positively could have on disease progression or even cancer presenting initially. So a lot more — it’s an exciting time.

Elissa Kalver: It’s such an exciting time and that’s again like everything is risk versus reward too. Like you know there’s certain scenarios where like that may not make sense for someone. I also have friends who are like having to do very micro dose because like they cannot lose weight like they should not lose weight but are doing it for side effects and it’s helping a lot too and so it’s like if there’s something there where it’s helping with disease progression and it’s also helping people to live more comfortably like please put all the research into that like that is that’s what I want.

David Raubach: Well, and that’s a good point because I think one takeaway for people is that if you’re going through something like chemotherapy and you’re having trouble keeping weight on and you’re losing weight, you know, you don’t want to be doing things that are going to compromise your ability to retain calories. Like you need nutrition to get through treatment. So talk to your doctor like let them help guide you through when you should or shouldn’t do some of these other supplemental things. So what is — is there anything — I mean you said that a lot of what you’ve done is kind of follow these different treatment regimens. Is there stuff that you’ve done because a lot of patients that you know they think about like well I want to have something that’s in my control like I want to feel like I’m doing something too. Are there things that you have done that you’ve said you know that was the right thing at that time like I felt like that worked or that helped.

Elissa Kalver: Yeah. Well the first thing I’ll say is that before having cancer like I owned a gym. I was like very strict on diet and nutrition because I really enjoyed like counting macros and doing that stuff and working out and I did all the things that a lot of people think and will say currently like cure cancer or prevent cancer. I got stage four cancer at age 34 anyway. That doesn’t mean that it’s not important. It just means that like it’s — don’t make it important enough that you’re ruining your life over it or blaming yourself because I feel 100% confident that there is nothing that like I knowingly could have done differently. I also have like plenty of friends that I drink with in college and stuff but none of them got cancer. So like even though alcohol is a known carcinogen like well then like nothing can fully prevent and nothing can fully cure like in that way. Like we have to have balance there.

Elissa Kalver: So I first though did jump into extremes. So like got diagnosed and I mean I immediately had someone tell me I should go carnivore and then someone else tell me I should go vegan in like the minutes. So like you know pro tip if you do both you’ll die. So don’t do that.

David Raubach: Yeah.

Elissa Kalver: But I decided — I mean I was so paleo for so many years. So I was like well why not try vegan cuz like not that I’ve been fully carnivore but like leaning carnivore. I’m like, well, clearly that didn’t work for me. So I went — oh, sorry about that — so, I went vegan. Which was very hard to do. Well, one, it’s extremely expensive. Extremely to like do it in a way that was like — I mean, I was going crazy organic. Like I had a friend of a friend that was like a private chef that was like going to the farmers markets out in Santa Barbara to get like the freshest stuff from the farmers she knew.

Elissa Kalver: Like I took this to an extreme and I’m not able to like taste food like you know — I that time particularly the carboplatin like I like my tongue felt like sandpaper my mouth dry all the time like it was so hard and I was putting such unrealistic expectations on myself but like I was eating enough and I was doing it and overall I didn’t feel great like I didn’t feel good not eating meat for me like it just was a feeling like and I was having everything very well prepared with the right amount of protein and everything. And so I was like, and then I would try kind of like eating chicken again or something else. I’m like, I just feel better.

Elissa Kalver: So like, should I follow a diet because like this one section might say it’s the best or should I like — maybe all the research I’ve done around like having more vegetables and greens and plant-based diet, like I can do that still while also doing this. And I think I shifted from being so all or nothing, which I always was, to really trying to balance more. And so the things that I’ve controlled is the stuff that like makes me feel best or you know, so I don’t drink too much alcohol, right? That is like a known carcinogen, but like I’ll still go hang out with friends and have drinks occasionally. And I did that actually. I didn’t drink for the first two years of having cancer.

Elissa Kalver: And when I started drinking again was when I was in the mode of being so depressed with the brain tumors and then my brain tumors went away. So I don’t know like if I then was like buy my workshop on how alcohol cures brain tumors like you know like input turmeric there input something else like we don’t — none of us have 100% of the answers. So I really just I make an effort at eating what makes me feel good, a really balanced diet, having enough protein, but like guys, like we got to cool it on stuff being packed protein. Like I just saw Doritos at the supermarket, like high protein Doritos. Like that’s not how this works. Like just like, you know, work in good forms of protein. Like come on.

David Raubach: So I shouldn’t be buying the sparkling water proteins at Costco.

Elissa Kalver: I mean, you do. Sparkling water, you know, infused with protein. I was like, “Oh, I like sparkling water and I need protein.” Yeah. Like there can be too much of a good thing, too. And like, yeah, I we just we overcorrect. And something I learned early on that really blew my mind cuz I was always really interested in nutrition and health and wellness and all that, which honestly feels very predatory once you’re diagnosed with cancer. And lately in the environment that we’re in, like it’s a — it can be a very toxic space. And like I really take a look at all of that because I feel like I come from that and I really wish that we could balance it more to what it was. Like it’s really upsetting see that. But like there’s so many ways that we can do this correctly and we go so quickly.

Elissa Kalver: So like when I first met with a dietitian when I once having breast cancer and she was like you should have like several servings of soy every day. I was like, “What? Doesn’t soy cause breast cancer?” Right? And so, I mean, I’ve confirmed this with a lot of dieticians and a lot of articles and other things. Like, it still sounds weird to say it and I still feel weird even when I have soy, but like the whole study about soy increasing estrogen had to do with it increasing an estrogen in rats that doesn’t exist in humans. Okay. So, it became this like thing that is not even applicable to us. And soy in the right amounts is actually a breast cancer preventative.

David Raubach: Oh wow.

Elissa Kalver: And so like I’m not a dietician. Don’t take this like word for me, but I’m saying it from at least a handful of oncology dieticians from like as medical and as woo as you can get. Like soy is actually a good thing. Who would have thought?

David Raubach: So now it’s like when we go through these periods like soy was good then it was bad then like dairy is bad then it’s good like then you know it’s only good if it’s raw like no you know and then like sugar feeds cancer sugar maybe sugar doesn’t feed cancer we don’t know.

Elissa Kalver: Yeah. Yeah. And so it’s like well okay if we’ve seen this pattern of us going too far in different directions and then learning from it maybe if we just balance it out like my career before cancer was in financial services. Is I was a financial adviser for a long time and like you know I wouldn’t tell a client to put all their money in Apple stock even a handful of direct stocks right you would diversify your portfolio and I look at that with like nutrition and everything else like diversify it cuz one we don’t know if any of this matters wholly for you or not so like still live your life but then also like what if this stuff like what if you only eat this one thing and then down the road that ends up being the thing that causes this or that like you know so just like eat a good amount of protein and like you know maybe don’t get it from Doritos or sparkling water like you know like just cuz like the quality of that matters too and you have to be realistic.

David Raubach: Yeah. Well there was an article a blog post that MD Anderson published last year was called the 36 foods that prevent cancer and it was a little bit of like a provocative title. When you actually read the article, they’re like, “Actually, there’s no food that is like proven if you just take this, you’re never getting cancer.”

Elissa Kalver: Right.

David Raubach: Like that just there’s not like magic blueberries at Sprouts that you can go get.

Elissa Kalver: Yeah. Like don’t just drink dandelion tea or like apricot seeds.

David Raubach: Right. Right. But the premise of the article was actually the best thing that you can do is eat a variety, eat the rainbow, right? Like eat a variety of different foods. Eat whole foods. Make sure that you’re getting your nutrients from foods. Like a vitamin C tablet is not the same as actually getting vitamin C from fruits and vegetables. It can sort of somewhat replace it if you have a big deficiency, but like you want to get your nutrients and minerals from natural sources as much as you possibly can.

David Raubach: Yeah. And then balancing — it sounds like that’s a lot what you’re saying.

Elissa Kalver: Definitely. And that’s like always what I strive for and how I feel best. And then just balance that with giving yourself grace cuz like — if you’re in the middle of chemo and all you can eat are like a specific tacos from this one place, then like that’s better than you starving yourself. So there’s a lot of rhetoric in that area of people being like, “Well, they’re giving patients like so much sodium or this or that.” Like yeah, there’s certain places where we could do better. But also, unless you’ve sat in that scenario and you know what it feels like for your tongue to literally be made of sandpaper and you don’t want to have anything like you need to survive also through those treatments and that’s what’s going to save your life, you know.

David Raubach: So, yeah, good balance.

David Raubach: So, let’s talk about We Got This. You know, you went — you’ve described going through chemo. And I — it sounds like part of the origin story here is this fifth round of chemo, you got all these blankets and candles and it was like, you know, it was very thoughtful gifts, but it wasn’t necessarily exactly what you needed for that particular moment in time. And so you really wanted to create this way for people that really did want to give back to connect with patients that needed help, but do it in a way that was really meaningful and what was — what that patient needed at that point in time. So just talk about like the idea, the inspiration and what We Got This is all about.

Elissa Kalver: Thank — I mean you described it great and that’s really what it stemmed from was just like realizing like why do we make it so easy to support each other in the good times like when we’re having babies and we’re getting married. But then it really felt like a burden once I was diagnosed with cancer and that was the piece that like really stood out to me as a gap and that we were missing the mark on not only for the patients like me but for the supporters like no one’s winning and I felt like if there’s a way that we can make it so that the burden doesn’t fall on the patient but that the supporters can also feel seen and understand how to help and not overwhelm like why would we not try to do that and you know that’s essentially what We Got This is like creating the Babylist combined with the GoFundMe and the HoneyFund and all these things of cancer.

Elissa Kalver: And so it’s one place where you can request what you actually need. Like you can get direct donations. You link up your direct account through Stripe. You can register for any products that you need or gift cards or services. Like for me, I didn’t want a meal train where people were going to have to coordinate like food. I also didn’t know what I’d want to eat like one hour to the other, right? So like Grubhub gift cards and that was the most beneficial anyway. So those are all things you can put on your registry. And then you know through the growth that we’ve had and last year was really our biggest growth. We went from 1500 people using it to over 15,000 within the calendar.

David Raubach: Oh my gosh. Wow.

Elissa Kalver: Yeah. Which is crazy because it really it’s just me working full-time now and with you know contractors and team. But, you know, we’re essentially this nonprofit tech startup that, you know, is trying to do what Babylist and The Knot and Zola are doing, but like in the most bootstrapped nonprofit way possible. And so, that’s kind of like the problem solving for now is like we’ve created this community and this brand and it’s proving itself time and time again. But like it doesn’t deserve to be 15,000 or even 150,000 people. Like it deserves to be everyone. Like this should be the masses and it deserves to be what Babylist is. Like we deserve that for these times just as much as we deserve it for when we’re pregnant and stuff.

Elissa Kalver: And so that’s what’s really sat with me the most of everything that we’re doing is really community. And it’s what aspect of that are we solving? And this is the piece that I felt like I could take my stab at solving. And we’ve since done a recommendation shop. So, like on our website, you can register for anything from any website. That was really important to me. Like it’s not just an Amazon wish list. If you want to register for stuff Amazon, you can, but you can also register for stuff off Etsy or Target or like literally anywhere. Like someone’s business that they created out of their cancer experience, making custom ports. Like, you can go register for that, you know.

Elissa Kalver: And we definitely had a demand for us curating more in a shop. So, we released that this past year. And so, at We Got This.org, or you can, you know, start a registry. You can shop recommendations. Everything in that shop donates back between 30 to 50% of the sale that we retain. So, we basically create our own marketplace so that we can retain the donation the way a normal wholesaler would. So, this isn’t your like October pink 10% up to a cap. This is like you go buy swolls on We Got This.org. 50% of that sale gets donated and stays with We Got This.org. So, it’s really getting to shop with a purpose.

Elissa Kalver: I haven’t gone in like bandwidth wise, it’s tough. We haven’t gone to promote that as much, but I’m hoping that have more time to do that leading into you know, busy season for me, which is October, it’s breast cancer awareness month. And then also I felt a need that when my husband was hyperventilating next to me and we’re being handed this folder of information and there was this pink copy sheet of resources, you know, like how can we make that better? And so we have a resource directory now also where you can filter by what you need. So if it’s financial support retreats, are you a caregiver, survivor, thriver like it’s for everyone affected by cancer, which is everyone, but we need to make it easier to find what we need.

Elissa Kalver: And right, I’m like, why is every nonprofit using resources to create a resource page that no one can navigate and people can’t really use? So my goal is that when someone hears that they have cancer or their friend has cancer, their family member, like you hear the word cancer, you only have to go to We Got This.org and that’s where you can find everything you could possibly need. I think we’ve done a lot considering how lean of a team we are. And that I’m still a full-time cancer patient and mom and all this stuff too, but I think we have a long way to go in creating this non-competitive space within the nonprofit space, which was really jarring to me when entering it.

Elissa Kalver: There’s so many amazing nonprofits and you can see a lot of them on our site, but you can’t control also who works at different nonprofits, what their motives are, and at the end of the day like they run like a business because they need funding. Like we need funding to continue. So, I don’t have all the answers yet, but it’s my life’s mission to find them as best as I can while I’m here. And I really think that we can — like I truly believe wholeheartedly that we are better together and combining efforts and building community like I know that we can make these huge changes because if me as a non-tech person can start a registry that is servicing over 15,000 people and you know it’s more than that of the hundreds of thousands of people who interact with us through social media and other stuff then like imagine if I had actual funding in a team.

Elissa Kalver: Imagine if we put the effort into We Got This that Babylist puts in. Like I think I looked up one time Babylist has a thousand employees. Like imagine that. Like what we could accomplish.

David Raubach: Yeah. So — if — so, it sounds like there’s three ways to get involved. So you can be a donor basically to because it’s a nonprofit. You can be a vendor partner. And so maybe there’s things that cancer patients need and there’s some there’s a partnership or you want to be able to give back to the cancer community and donate a portion of the proceeds. And then also if you’re a patient and you want to go on and create a registry. So did I summarize that?

Elissa Kalver: Yeah, that was great. And from the patient experience someone using the site it — I describe as the three Rs. And it’s kind of a bit more than that too leaning in but essentially narrowing it down. It’s gift registry resources which is the other nonprofits and things that you can filter and find that are free and then the recommendations which is the shop that’s all products and things you can register for or now if anyone messages me — and please feel free to use this — like if you’re someone who has or had cancer and you’re the first text someone thinks of when someone they know got diagnosed and they’re asking you what that person needs like just send them the link to our shop.

Elissa Kalver: You know like that’s what I want that’s what I’ve been creating it in. Our shop has over a thousand products already. And we can’t keep up with how many products want to be in it. It’s so like right now, I can’t stress enough if you’re listening and you don’t have cancer and you like want to support like we really need funding and infrastructure to be able to continue the growth. Our community is outgrowing our resources because the need is so there. So, yeah, our biggest thing now is just like taking what we’ve been doing and amplifying it. Because the community is already showing up because —

David Raubach: Yeah.

Elissa Kalver: — because they needed a place to show up too.

David Raubach: Yeah. That’s amazing. Well, and it’s also hard sometimes to ask for help like you’re going you’ve got so many doctor’s appointments and you’ve got chemobrain and it’s hard to and then you know having those one-on-one conversations where somebody’s like, “What do you need?” And it’s like at this point in time like maybe I actually just need somebody to walk my dog. It like if I have time to sit down and think through it and have a list in front of me and then it’s — and there’s a privacy aspect of it — sometimes it’s easier to just say hey here’s a registry and then whoever wants to help can help however they want there’s no pressure you know it’s like the baby registry you don’t have to buy me the crib if you just buy me a pack of diapers that’s super helpful too right?

Elissa Kalver: Totally. This is the cancer idea behind that. I love that. And then the dog walking scenario like so that person texts you and asks you what you need and say you need your dog walked if that person’s not available then to walk your dog like that — like immediately would scare me away from asking for other things like cuz people don’t realize like people always be like oh if you ever need help you know watching Ellie or that but like when I have — they — you know, and someone hasn’t been available that’s not their fault like can’t expect someone to be on call but at the same time then we need to be managing those expectations because now I’m going to feel uncomfortable making that ask cuz like I already went way out of my comfort zone asking it and then it wasn’t possible.

Elissa Kalver: So like we really need to think through like this is a bigger deal than what we set to it. And maybe that’s where instead maybe it’s registering for a dog walking service, you know, or like thinking through better ways to support each other that aren’t people offering what they might not be able to give.

David Raubach: So I want to be respectful of your time and this has been amazing. I’ve loved talking to you, Elissa. And I think part of the reason that I’ve loved talking to you is that I’ve noticed that you’ve incorporated humor into a lot of your like just kind of just talking about your experiences and the cancer journey. Does that just come naturally or was that kind of — did you have to kind of like get comfortable with that over time because cancer can be such a serious topic?

Elissa Kalver: Yeah. You know, like thinking back to the beginning, I’m not sure. I mean, from the beginning, I wasn’t — it wasn’t my instinct to be sad or crying. It was more like, yeah, just being me and who I am now is who I’ve always been, but I feel like I’ve been given the cancer card of getting to be so like unapologetically myself and an amplified version of the things that maybe I felt like I needed to be quieter. Like, you know, like I feel like I can shine my light brighter. Because also like I see that helps me and it’s really cool to see that it’s helping other people.

Elissa Kalver: The direct comedy piece though, I have to give credit to my friend Nicole who owns a comedy club called The Crow here in Santa Monica. And she does this — it’s a nonprofit called Storyectomy and it’s all about getting your story out and she does it for different things beyond cancer too, but she’ll do like different cohorts basically. And it was like I think it was like 10 of us that we got six free weeks of like standup comedy classes and then had a big performance where we did a seven minute set of telling our cancer story. And not everyone had cancer. Like one of my really good friends Kerianne from it — like we’re such close friends now. We both have metastatic breast cancer. Someone in it was a doctor. People who lost close family members like it was just telling in your way but as a stand-up comedy routine.

Elissa Kalver: And so when I started doing that, it just like it felt so good and fun and natural and seeing it and then you know I mean the show like immediately sold out and everyone who came to see it felt like so excited about it and any of my friends who came were like can you do more of this you know like how can we do this more and so that’s when I started stemming more into creating more comedic content doing Cancer Is A Joke which is an event we’re doing the second annual of November 15th here in LA at Dynasty Typewriter. It’ll also be live streamed nationwide again.

Elissa Kalver: And I’m like, there’s certain stuff where at first I would filter myself. And actually a great example of this, not what kind of comedy, but when I first started, We Got This — the first ever like fundraiser fully that I planned was a golf tournament in my hometown outside of Boston, Andover, Mass. And I had a contact at Liquid Death and they were like, “We can send out and donate like a ton of Liquid Death for the day.” And a friend of mine who was helping with marketing and some other people were like, “Elissa, you cannot have a product called death at a cancer fundraiser.”

David Raubach: A cancer tournament.

Elissa Kalver: Yeah. Exactly. So, it’s like fair. But it kind of like come back in my mind like why didn’t that bother me? Like I’m the one with cancer. The people telling me that I can’t do it don’t have cancer. So if that didn’t — like why didn’t that bother me, right? So I didn’t do it that first year. And then once I became more comfortable in this space and building legitimacy and like feeling like you know unapologetically me, I’m like we’re gonna have Liquid Death now. It also became a much bigger brand. Like so it didn’t sound as radical. I mean they basically rebranded water into this billion dollar idea like amazing.

Elissa Kalver: So since then we work with Liquid Death a lot but we actually did in the Storyectomy group the standup comedy group Paulie who does a lot of the marketing for Liquid Death here in LA and she’s amazing badass like heavy metal guitarist singer and stuff too. She was like, “They’re gonna — they’re changing the wrap on — they have a hearse.” If anyone’s ever seen like Liquid Death has a hearse that they drive around with a fridge in the back that’s a casket. And so she’s like they’re going to rewrap it cuz they’re now like a sponsor of NASCAR and it was originally wrapped all pink. Not that I’m a big pink person, but like it looked really awesome and like badass. She’s like, “Would you want to like do like a photo shoot with the hearse?” Like I’m just thinking like she had — like she drives the hearse like at her house.

David Raubach: Yeah.

Elissa Kalver: So I was like what if we do this at the comedy club and we have this photo shoot and it’s actually the photo of me is the photo that was used as the cover on Good Morning America.

David Raubach: Was it really? Oh my god.

Elissa Kalver: Yeah. It’s me like just serious walking away from a hearse.

David Raubach: Yeah. Oh my gosh.

Elissa Kalver: And we have all these group pictures like leaning on the casket like I’m sitting on top of it and like it’s like that’s when you’re like you know what there’s actually no right or wrong way to do any of this and like you know just like have everyone like you know intentions are important and like you want everyone to feel seen and heard and don’t like go be mean to people but like do what’s best for you and like breaking into that the comedy stuff I’m enjoying so much like it’s these pieces — this is where I’m like, oh, like if we enjoy doing this, let’s do that. Like, you know, the golf tour is amazing. We did 5 years of it. I think we’re going to switch it next year to do Cancer Is A Joke on the East Coast also. And I’m just kind of like doing things based on what feels right and what’s fun because like I’m dedicating my life to doing this. We should do what we enjoy, right?

David Raubach: That’s amazing. Well, so my last question for you, and I’m going to do another quote here.

Elissa Kalver: Yeah.

David Raubach: And I want you to give a message if you will, Elissa, because you’re such an inspiration and you have such a great perspective on life and just kind of this journey that you’ve gone through. So, this is a quote that I pulled off the website. As long as we’re awake and alive, pulling breath into our lungs, let’s play the music loud and enjoy the rhythm as much as we possibly can. As long as we’re living, let’s live. And if you would just give a message to somebody who is just finding out that they have cancer and maybe even just finding out that they have stage four cancer, like where you were at 5 years ago. What’s your message to that person?

Elissa Kalver: I say the first thing I just really want them to know is that it’s okay if they’re not ready now. Whenever they’re ready, there is so much community waiting for them. Like I just attended Camp Breastie this past year. I’m 5 years in. I’ve never gone before or been a part of that organization. That’s one of the bigger ones for, you know, and it was there when I was ready to do it. And I just want you to know there’s no rush. There’s no — like you don’t have to figure it all out right this second. And there’s a lot that you will feel like you have to figure out. And in fairness, there’s some urgency on some things that you can’t really go back in time and do. But like, we’re all here doing it. And you can do it, too. And you deserve to do it in the way that feels right for you and you deserve to live. You’re not just here to survive and stay alive. Like, f that noise.

David Raubach: Yeah, that’s amazing. Thank you so much, Elissa. I really appreciate your time today. So nice chatting with you. And I’m looking forward to kind of connecting everybody in the cancer community and in our little circle with We Got This and what a great resource for patients. So, thank you so much for coming on.

Elissa Kalver: Thank you so much for having me and all that you do for our community.

David Raubach: The Cancer Project podcast is made possible by the Oklahoma Proton Center, a state-of-the-art cancer center where precision and treatment meets real compassion in care. We’re grateful for their support and for you for spending this time with us. If you’d like to learn more about the Oklahoma Proton Center, you can visit their website at the link below. And if something you heard today resonated, we’d love for you to stick with us. You can subscribe to the podcast and follow along on our socials linked below for more conversations like this. Honest stories, thoughtful perspectives, and the kind of support people don’t always know where to find, but do truly need. At the end of the day, this podcast isn’t just about cancer. It’s about what it means to be human inside of it and how we keep living, connecting, and moving forward together. We hope you leave each episode feeling a little bit more informed, a little bit more supported, and a lot less alone.