Transcript generated from the episode’s audio. Speaker names are identified from the context of the conversation rather than from recorded speaker data, and automatic transcription may misspell names and terminology. Please refer to the video for the authoritative version.

David Raubach: Thank you for joining us on today’s episode of the Cancer Project podcast. I’m really excited about today’s episode. We’re going to be talking to Michelle Raney who has an incredible story of survival and perseverance. She was diagnosed with breast cancer at a very young age and then had to deal with the cancer actually recurring. And so she’s really gone through a very arduous process with treatment. And yet today I can say that she’s as optimistic as she’s ever been despite everything that she’s gone through. And I’m also very happy to be joined by a co-host today, Heather Jacobson. Heather is the executive producer and creative director on the Cancer Project podcast. So she’s behind the scenes, but today she is on camera. So thank you for joining us today, Heather and Michelle. Thank you so much for being here with us. And we’re really excited to talk to you a little bit about the journey that you’ve gone through.

Michelle Raney: Yeah. Thank you for having me. I’m excited. Yeah.

David Raubach: So, tell us a little bit, just about yourself. Yeah. Where you’re from, what you do, help us get to know you, Michelle Raney.

Michelle Raney: Yeah. So, I am originally from Broken Arrow, Oklahoma. But I’ve been living here in Edmond for the past three years, three and a half years. I’m 27 years old. I met my husband three years ago. And it’s been a very different start to a marriage. I was diagnosed with breast cancer, very aggressive breast cancer, two and a half years ago.

David Raubach: How long had you been married at that point though? Like you’re fresh into this marriage.

Michelle Raney: We were married a year. So I was 25 years old, married a year. We were on top of the world. You know, we had just gotten back from a ski trip and went to a golf tournament and you’re young, you’re married, you’re healthy, everything’s going great. And so cancer was really the last thing on our minds, on our radar at that point in life. And so it was interesting. So, you know, to start, been here in Oklahoma City for three years, but for a little over two years, I’ve actually been battling cancer and it’s been the majority of my marriage. It’s been the majority of like my young adulthood. And so it’s been hard, but I’m excited to dig in today and share, you know, mainly where my hope comes from. And, you know, I believe miracles happen.

David Raubach: And I think that’s what we’ve seen with you. So, there’s a couple of critical moments along your journey. Of course, there’s that moment that you found out that you had cancer. There’s also the moment that we got to know you at the Oklahoma Proton Center. So, I think I’m actually going to start there. Yeah. I believe I went back and looked at your patient chart and I think it was April 10th.

Michelle Raney: Yep. Of last year.

David Raubach: Yeah. That we got the first phone call from you. Yeah. Where were you at in the process at that point? What led to you calling the Proton Center?

Michelle Raney: Yeah. So, I was originally diagnosed in May of 2023 and it, you know, I went through, you know, almost two full years of treatment. And so from May of 23, you know, lots of treatment into 2024 of more chemotherapy. And so in April, at that point, when I contacted the Proton Center, I was actually still undergoing chemotherapy. But I’m a very proactive woman and I wanted to get on the ball with talking to doctors and seeing what next steps were, and because it can, you know, there’s people from all over the world and it just, appointments get booked. And so I was like, “All right, we’re going to be on top of it. Get in with the doctor, see what I want to do.” And so I had two options of radiation approaches. So traditional radiation with, you know, photon or proton.

Michelle Raney: And so my husband and I, we golf at a place near the Proton Center. And so we pass by, I mean, we exit by the Proton Center every time we go to the golf club. And so I’ve always known where it was, you know, for that year we were married. And I always thought it was pretty cool. I was like, “Oh, we have a high-tech medical treatment center here in Oklahoma. How cool.” And it was the last place I thought I would ever be. And so at that point in April, when I knew I was looking at radiation options, I wanted to contact the Proton Center. And so I called and started that process and was kind of interviewing, I was interviewing, you know, my doctor and as you should interviewing, you know, the radiation doctor at my other hospital, but I was pretty set on coming to the Proton Center.

David Raubach: So April 10th, you’ve called the Proton Center. You know, you need radiation at that point. Yeah. You’re interviewing doctors. So let’s step back then, back to 2023. Yeah. Walk us through how you found out that you had cancer.

Michelle Raney: Yeah. So, in May of 2023, I was just at my regular well-woman exam that I did, did it every year. It was for insurance purposes with the company that I was working for. And so it was just routine. And my OB/GYN, she was doing her exam and she felt the tiniest lump in my breast. I mean, it’s not something I would have ever noticed. And you’re, you’re 25 years old. So, you know, I’m not doing my own self-exams. I’m 25. I don’t even know what I’m looking for. And I am so thankful that my doctor had the discernment to say, “Hey, you know, girl, I’m like almost 100% sure.” She said 99% sure this is nothing but let’s go ahead and send you to an ultrasound doctor. I said, “Okay, cool,” and cancer is the last thing on my mind.

Michelle Raney: But I’m so thankful that she had that discernment to send me forward because she could have so quickly have been like, there is no indications of cancer, she’s young, she’s healthy, you know, come back in six months, let me know if something’s changed. So she didn’t do that and I proceeded with the ultrasound and through just, like, grace, I was able to get in just a couple days later and that ultrasound doctor said, girl, this looks like a fibrous buildup, like it looks like it’s at its end stage, end stages, we can see the calcium around it. I was like, cool, and she said, okay, so you can come back in six months and we can do another ultrasound, or we could do a biopsy. I said, well, what would you do? You know, I’m a businesswoman. I don’t, this isn’t my field. And so she suggested a biopsy. I said, “Okay, cool.”

Michelle Raney: So I proceeded with a biopsy. And so it, from the time that my OB/GYN felt a lump to diagnosis was like six days. And I got a call from my doctor and she said it was cancer. And it, just, that’s the last thing you expect when you’re 25. When you’re 25, I mean, that shocking news is typically like, “I’m pregnant.” And it wasn’t.

David Raubach: And I remember you saying to me in the past, my heart literally dropped, and because everything just stands still in that moment, right? And who do you lean on? And that is it your husband? Are you calling, yeah, a mom, whoever? Yeah. What who are you calling in that?

Michelle Raney: Yeah. So, it was like your heart just drops. And I know that goes for every person that’s been diagnosed with cancer. Like when you get that phone call and you hear those words, your heart just drops, right? And so for me, the first person I actually was, I was praying. I was like, “All right, Lord, like I trust you. I know this is about to be really hard and difficult, but I trust you.” And then I called my mom and because I didn’t want to call my husband first because I knew that this news was going to change his life and would be something that he’d remember for the rest of his life. And so I was like, “Okay, let’s, you know, I want him to be in a safe space.”

Michelle Raney: And I just wasn’t ready to break his heart. And being married for a year, married, I was not ready to break his heart. So I called my mom and I was crying. I said, “Mom, I have cancer.” And she said, “Michelle,” she said, “we are not going to claim cancer over you.” She said, “We’re going to, you know, cancer is trying to attack your body, but you do not have it. It’s not yours.” And so ever since that day, the day I was diagnosed, that was the first and the last time I ever said, “I have cancer.”

David Raubach: What? So, so you’ve talked to your mom. Yeah. Then what happens next? It was fast and furious. You didn’t know you had seven doctors the next day, but you have seven doctors the next day.

Michelle Raney: And, you know, it just was a process. Okay, we’ll meet with the breast surgeon. Then we’ll meet with the oncologist. We’ll meet, you know, start setting up all these steps and look at treatment plans. We need to see like diagnosis, what has it spread to any other areas of the body? More biopsies, more MRIs. And it was just fast and furious of like getting into the doctor. And you know, for me, unfortunately, it had already spread to my lymph nodes and so stage three at that point, and which was just also pretty crazy, you know, I felt healthy as a horse and so it was just fast and furious of getting into the doctor and beginning to see what treatment options looked like.

David Raubach: And you’re a very proactive person. You talked about kind of taking charge of your treatment process. Yeah. What’s your approach at that point? What are you doing separate from going to visit all of these doctors and listening to what they have to say? How are you tackling the process ahead?

Michelle Raney: Yeah. So, how that looked like for me, faith is number one for me and so not only looking like you know obviously the Lord gives us doctors and medicine but for me I was like okay I cannot keep my eyes strictly on what the world has because the world offers death, like that’s just how it is. And so, okay, for me, I really had to have a spiritual, like, transformation in my own heart, my own mind, my own journey, and how I was going to go forward with this. And really focusing on that mindset and believing in miracles and remembering the miracles that I’ve seen and really believing like, okay, I can heal, my body can heal, and healing is possible. And really beginning on like changing that mindset and not oh my gosh I’m going to die.

Michelle Raney: Oh my gosh, I have to do chemotherapy. And it really, I mean it really is a mental battle and it’s so easy to get into the negative of the doom and darkness around you and the statistics around you. And, you know, really having to focus on that mental battle was number one, in that game changer, but I also believe in medicine. I believe that medicine is a whole body approach and so it’s not just a one-size-fits-all and it’s not a one treatment for every single person out there. I believe that medicine, we have to look at what’s going on in an individual’s own body. And so because you know I’m 25, you know the statistics and the data and what we have out there for breast cancer is primarily for you, right?

David Raubach: Yeah.

Michelle Raney: It’s for women who are typically 45 years and older. I’m 25. What? That’s not supposed to be that way. And so I really wanted to understand when one of my oncologists, she had told me that it was because of genetics that is why I was facing cancer at 25 years old. And that answer wasn’t satisfactory for me because there’s just, you know, realistically genetics and singular events account for five to 10% of actual cancer diagnosis. It said that genetics load the gun, but your lifestyle pulls the trigger, right? And so needing to understand like okay, what am I consuming? What are like environmental factors, physical factors, what are foods, stressors inside your control that you can manage, right?

David Raubach: Yes. Exactly.

Michelle Raney: And so, taking that approach and adding that into understanding why cancer and adding that into my treatment was very important to me.

David Raubach: So, what did that mean practically at that point in time? And I know we’ve talked with you a little bit about, I think I’m going to use a term that maybe some people are familiar with, integrated or integrative oncology. Yeah. How did that manifest itself back in 2023 at that moment right after you got diagnosed?

Michelle Raney: Yeah. So, right after I got diagnosed, I actually, so I believed in integrative medicine before being diagnosed, but when I got diagnosed, I was like, “No way am I touching that.” You know, I’m not going to eat beets and say that it cures me, like, you know, because you have really extreme people on social media, right? That, I mean, it just, it’s not healthy to look at and follow that advice because cancer is hard, right? And it can be deadly and it’s not something to mess around with. And so I was like, “No way am I touching that.” And my doctor was talking to me about, you know, these different things and I was like, “Yeah, I’ll never do that. Nope. No.”

Michelle Raney: And so it was something I actually was like, “No, let’s get my port put in, let’s start chemotherapy, let’s start this now.” And it actually, through a lot of prayer and open doors, integrative medicine actually came back into my life. And I met with a couple different doctors and had a lot of peace actually about incorporating integrative medicine into my treatment plan. And so that’s kind of how it started. Right afterwards was, okay, you know, at first I was really closed off to it and then it just came in flooded with peace and so I followed that.

David Raubach: So I think, you know, one of the things that we talk about at the Proton Center, Heather, is just the fact that there’s so much information out there and people go to resources or have resources like TikTok or Instagram. Yeah. How do you know like what’s real, what’s fake, what, it’s, people are so vulnerable at that time. How did you kind of weed through the information and say, “Okay, well, this is where I need to go or what I need to do, I need more of this in my diet versus cutting this out.” How, where do you even start?

Michelle Raney: Oh gosh, that’s hard because even now I look at that, you know, on the reels that come on Instagram and TikTok and some of it just, it’s really freaky and it blows my mind and it makes me sad for people out there because, you know, people who say, you know, if I got diagnosed with cancer, I would start with a three day water fast only. And people look at that as fact and they start to do those things.

David Raubach: You had the wherewithal to say, “Okay, well, there’s room for both.” Some people don’t, though. So how do you…

Michelle Raney: Yeah. So I think that it’s very important to have accredited doctors and not look to social media. Social media, you know, you need to have a team, an actual, like, verified, certified integrative oncology team, someone that you can trust who comes with that backing and credibility. And then sure you can float around on social media and see what other people have to say. But to try to figure it out on your own is not something I would recommend. And I know for some people it has worked which is awesome and I’m not discounting that. But you know I’ve also seen for some people who did do it their own way and unfortunately, like, cancer took a really hard turn for them. And so it’s just, you know, cancer is not something to play around with.

David Raubach: Yeah. Time is of the essence with a diagnosis, right? You really need to take it seriously and not prolong some treatment. I think part of the way that I would think about integrative medicine is that you are integrating different approaches. You’ve talked about the fact that your body is fighting the cancer simultaneous to you getting some of these external treatments. Yeah. There’s, and it, it’s hard to navigate social media because there actually is a lot of great information out there too.

Michelle Raney: Absolutely. There’s a lot of, there’s actually a lot of great doctors or institutions or cancer centers.

David Raubach: Yeah. Or even patient testimonials that can be very valuable resources for patients. And I think the other thing that we talk a lot about at the Proton Center and that you’ve taken this approach is you as a patient have to be your own advocate.

Michelle Raney: Yes.

David Raubach: You care about your body. You care about your mental health. You care about your well-being more than anybody else.

Michelle Raney: Yeah.

David Raubach: And so maybe take it from that angle. How are you balancing…

Michelle Raney: Yes. You need to have this certified team of credible doctors. Yeah. That have experience dealing with this particular cancer. But also, I know that I have to be my own advocate. And maybe I’m even credible in certain areas too, a radiation oncologist is very credible in radiation oncology versus a medical oncologist who really knows chemotherapy, all those things. So, yeah, you kind of have to have an all hands approach with this and have a team of all of those doctors.

David Raubach: Yeah. And not be afraid to speak up and ask questions and make suggestions. So, how did you balance that?

Michelle Raney: Oh, I laugh because I know I have given my doctors a run for their money. Very much so because it really is different going into cancer hospitals and facilities because I’m typically always the youngest one in the room. I’m not at a pediatric hospital obviously, but it’s not far off from it though. It’s, I mean, really, and so when I go into these hospital rooms, you know, most of the time these people are, you know, my parents’ age, my grandparents’ age, they’re on oxygen tanks, you know, they’re in wheelchairs, you know, they’re not well taken care of with their body. And so I’m up there and I remember thinking like, I don’t belong here. Like I don’t belong here.

Michelle Raney: I, you know, on my off days of chemotherapy, I was working out and, you know, trying to get the nutrition I could. And so, I say all of that because, with all the medications I took, with all the chemotherapies I did, I asked my doctors about every single question there was to ask about it. You know, whether it be about like the PARP inhibitors or anything with it, you know, I wanted to know like side effects. I wanted to know what things would look like. And so I could incorporate integrative modalities with it to support my body because like you know to be able to reduce inflammation in your body that’s huge. To increase oxygen in your body is huge. To decrease like an acidic environment in your body is huge because those are all areas that cancer thrives in.

Michelle Raney: They thrive in high acidic environments, low oxygenated environments. They thrive in stress, they thrive in inflammation. That’s when it grows. And so, you know, to be able to understand like those basics of your body, right? It takes, you know, I was a businesswoman before and now I know a lot about my own body. And it’s kind of like a car, right? You know, we see a lot of people, you know, probably our dads or our handymen and they know everything about a car and go get this belt changed at 100,000 miles, you know, do this with your oil. Well, we all drive cars. Some of us, you know, don’t know anything about the cars and we just, you know, believe it wherever we take it. Other people are, you know, can change their own alternators, right?

Michelle Raney: And so it’s just being able to like, you have to take the time to learn about your body, learn about the things that your body does and how we were designed. And from there, you’re able to, I mean, you’re able to just feel it in your own body. So then when you’re undergoing these really harsh treatments, you know how to complement, you know, just traditional medicine. And it gives your body a really good chance at fighting back as well because then you’re encouraging your immune system to grow stronger. You’re encouraging your body to like heal from the inside. You’re just giving your body a fighting chance with it, right? You know, because there’s the spirit, the body, right? Like it, it takes both to do it. It’s like what we talk about at the Proton Center with the 360 cancer care, mind, body, soul, right?

David Raubach: Yeah. Diagnosis, treatment, survivorship, you really have to take this holistic approach.

Michelle Raney: Yeah.

David Raubach: So, what were some of, and I know we’ve talked a little bit about this, so I’d love to hear some of the examples of treatments that you found to be helpful or beneficial for things like stress or inflammation or balancing acidity.

Michelle Raney: Yeah. Oh gosh. Okay. I think it’s awesome and I have a plethora of information. So I just picked a couple of topics that I think are really like different modalities that are really interesting and some that I’ve done, some that I haven’t done. To start, I think that an individual, especially going through cancer treatment, needs to get a baseline of where their body is at, right?

David Raubach: Right.

Michelle Raney: Like we do, you know, the typical CBCs, you know, the CMPs, let’s see, you know, certain tumor markers. But we need to look, okay, let’s see what that CRP, like an inflammation marker, is saying. Let’s see what iron is saying or alkaline phosphates and like just let’s see what your body is saying from an entire approach and, is this a blood test or is this…

David Raubach: Right?

Michelle Raney: A hormone panel. Let’s see where your hormones are at. Okay. Let’s see, you know, truly where your stressors are at. Let’s see. Let’s try to just get a deeper body approach. And so, you know, it’s a hard line. You know there’s a lot of things that you can do. It’s kind of two parts to integrative approaches. There’s a lot that you can do that is free that doesn’t have a lot of extra like you don’t have to go to a different clinic, a different doctor to do. So there are a lot of things that you can do with that. But with integrative medicine, you really do have to have a doctor. And so one of the things that I did to address like, let’s see where my body is at, is called a 3D BioScan.

David Raubach: Okay.

Michelle Raney: And so what that does is, let me flip to my notes.

David Raubach: And I will say this, Michelle, one of the things that I’ve always appreciated about you is that you are very detail oriented. You come with notes. But I think that’s incredible. It’s incredible. We want this for every patient to be doing exactly what you’re doing. And I think some people just don’t even know where to start.

Michelle Raney: This is so helpful.

David Raubach: Yeah. And there’s no bad questions, so there’s no wrong questions.

Michelle Raney: No. I love it. Okay. Well, so what I started with was something called the 3D BioScan with my integrative oncologist. And so this scans the body at a cellular level. So, right, like when cancer is growing, it’s at a cellular level. Like you don’t even feel that it’s growing. And so, you know, when we’re talking about at a cellular level, some people can be so quick to just like breeze by it, but truly like cancer starts at a cellular level. And so, in this scan, it evaluates the metabolic and energetic activities within tissue. And so, this offers a unique view into your body and its functional state.

Michelle Raney: And so I mean it is incredible the things that this scan specifically does. It looks at over I think 20,000 different variables within your body from parasites, inflammation, stressors, depression, your hormones, just, I mean every cancer, you know, even in January, I did this scan this past January and it showed angiogenesis which is growth of blood tumor vessels like cancer tumor vessels. So we saw that and we saw the bone and so we were just able to, you’re able to see some of these things so you know how to tackle some of these approaches. And so being able to start with a scan or blood work of just something that gives you a baseline, like let’s understand your whole body, what’s going on. It’s not just cancer, like what took your body to this point that cancer started to develop.

Michelle Raney: You know, it didn’t, you didn’t just wake up one day and have a tumor and be like, “Oh, there’s cancer, right?” You know, it took years of your body going through whatever it went through to have a cancer diagnosis, right? So, there’s some breakdown in the body’s natural immune system, whether they’re…

David Raubach: Yeah.

Michelle Raney: Whether it’s those immune cells are not recognizing the cancer or there’s some chemical thing happening that’s preventing your body’s immune system from dealing with mutation in cells.

David Raubach: So yes, so this is, this full body checkup you talked about, the car, this is the examination or the inspection to say what are maybe some of the issues that led to this disease that I now have.

Michelle Raney: Exactly. Exactly. And so I love how you put it and that just reiterated my point of when my first oncologist told me that I was diagnosed because of genetics. Like girl, it took a little bit more than just that.

David Raubach: Yes. It played a, there may have been a predisposition for this to occur.

Michelle Raney: Yes. But then maybe there’s some other things that have happened.

David Raubach: Absolutely, that have again led to this cancer diagnosis. Right. Absolutely.

Michelle Raney: So another integrative modality that I incorporated into my treatments was something called ozone therapy. And so this is a medical treatment that uses ozone gas at a highly reactive form of oxygen that’s composed of three oxygen atoms. So it’s really cool. It’s really technical. We use UV ray lights. You know, we take your blood out. It goes through this oxygenation process. Your UV light just kind of really cleans up blood, puts oxygen into it, and then we put it back into your body. And so, the point of that is just increasing the oxygen in your body. I mean, that really is it. It helps clear out inflammation. And it helps clear out, I mean if there’s parasitic activity going in your body, it just helps give your body, it’s like taking a multivitamin, you know, for your body, just gives a good boost and helping your body to perform optimally.

Michelle Raney: So was I doing this during, you know, oral chemotherapy pills and just like helping my body in the ways that I could. So it wasn’t something that, you know, these modalities and integrative medicine is to be used in conjunction with, um, traditional chemotherapy, right? It’s not either or, I don’t think so. I know for some people it has worked for them for pursuing just strictly holistic and integrative medicine but for me that was not the case.

David Raubach: That’s where you look, case by case, patient by, that’s a person by person, that’s not a all everyone has the same approach.

Michelle Raney: That’s a, yeah, you know, it’d be different if someone was, you know, stage zero or stage one or something very minimal and being able to start with an approach like that. That’d be a different story. But, you know, as someone that was stage three, very aggressive, you know, that wasn’t the case for me.

Michelle Raney: Now there’s this other integrative modality that I do want to talk about. It’s not one that I did, but I think it is super interesting. And it has a lot of science behind it. And I really cannot wait for it to be more widely adopted here in the US. And so this is called hyperthermia treatment and it is a non-invasive and it is scientifically backed therapy that uses heat to target and treat cancer cells. So, this cancer treatment involves raising the temperature of a specific area in the body to help destroy cancer cells or make them more sensitive to other forms of treatment such as radiation and chemotherapy. So this is hyperthermia, something that you use in conjunction with radiation and or chemotherapy.

Michelle Raney: And so the goal of that, so cancer cells are more sensitive to heat than healthy cells. That’s just, it’s a proven fact. And when cancer cells are exposed to high temperatures, their ability to function and reproduce is impaired. The characteristics of these cancer cells that make them more susceptible is because they have poor blood supply and tumors. Cancer cells have weaker repair mechanisms, right? They’re really just kind of going crazy, right? And they’re in an acidic and low oxidization environment, right? And with the faster cell proliferation which means, you know, cancer cells have poor response levels to thermal stress and so that’s why hyperthermia is something that is actually being used in conjunction here at a couple places in the states but also overseas.

David Raubach: So, talk to me. So that brings up a good point because some of the things or treatments that you’ve talked about either aren’t widely accessible or maybe aren’t covered by insurance and so there’s this cost component that you’re having to factor in.

Michelle Raney: I’m thinking that too, like I’m newly diagnosed, I know nothing about any of this. How do I even know, you say a doctor but then, yeah, can I afford this or is this something that is even an option for me? I don’t know.

David Raubach: Absolutely. Yeah. So talk to us a little bit about accessibility. Accessibility geographically, medically, financially. What have you found going through this process? You talked about hyperthermia maybe only being available in a few places in the United States.

Michelle Raney: Yeah. So hyperthermia specifically is available in the US at, out of Boston University, the Sloan Kettering Cancer Center in New York. Yeah. Duke University and Maryland University. So some top hospitals, I mean some top cancer centers with us, is very exciting. But Germany is the world leader in hyperthermia. And so with that of being able to have access to integrative modalities, it is expensive. There’s no way around it. Insurance doesn’t cover it. And being able to, I’m very thankful that we were able to pursue having an integrative oncologist. She lives out in California and I have to travel out there. And, you know, whatever I am not able to do in my time out there with her, I’ve been able to piece together here in Oklahoma with some other doctors who offer similar services. But again, insurance doesn’t cover it, right? And so I mean, I know we have spent a lot of money on cancer, right?

David Raubach: And the amount of appointments too, I know you’ve said this number to me before and I’m going to forget it off the top of my head, but how many appointments have you had from like first diagnosed up until today?

Michelle Raney: Up until today, it’s grown upwards of like 350 appointments.

David Raubach: Incredible. That’s, that’s so, it’s just an incredible number.

Michelle Raney: Yeah, it’s, I mean that’s a, I mean from every appointment and MRIs and blood work and shots and so to be, it is a full-time job. And to be able to incorporate integrative medicine, that’s where it has two parts. There’s a lot that you can do that is free.

David Raubach: And, like, give us an example.

Michelle Raney: So being outside in the sun, right, like not always being indoors and in front of that blue light and really prioritizing reducing that stress level and meditation and breathing and using, you know, stainless steel, right, versus nonstick, like Teflon. There’s a documentary on Netflix about Teflon about how carcinogenic it is.

David Raubach: It’s wild.

Michelle Raney: Crazy. And so being able to just like replace certain things, you know, using glass and wood versus plastic because you microwave, baby steps though, every day, right? It’s not all at once. It’s, what can I, can stop drinking out of a whatever that’s been sitting in my car for a few days that might have some chemicals on it. Changing like the detergents that you use or your shampoos. Just really starting with the little things like filtering your water.

David Raubach: Yeah.

Michelle Raney: I mean those, that, you know, that one’s a, you know, couple hundred, some different moisturizer. I’m the girl, so I’m thinking through all the things I could probably stop putting on my face and, you know, hairspray, all the things, you got to, baby steps. An average makeup product, I think, has like over a hundred ingredients. We have not a lot of regulations on those either in the United States. So you really have to read the label.

David Raubach: Yeah.

Michelle Raney: So being able to read the label and food is a big one. Being able to prioritize eating real food instead of processed. I know we all love Chick-fil-A, but Chick-fil-A’s chicken sandwich is made with too many ingredients, right? And it really does stink. Eating out has not become enjoyable for me because I’m like, “Oh, I don’t even want to know what this is.”

David Raubach: Right.

Michelle Raney: Yeah. But there’s a healthy balance obviously, but being…

David Raubach: You can always have a cheat day.

Michelle Raney: Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. And so being able to just start with those small things of, you know, choosing not to drink a pop or alcohol. Alcohol or, you know, I remember being in the chemotherapy room and this man that I was next to, he goes, “Yeah, this is my third time in 10 years of me dealing with cancer.”

David Raubach: Wow.

Michelle Raney: He pulls out a giant Mountain Dew bottle and a king-size Rice Krispie. I’m not saying that’s what did it for him, but it’s definitely not helping. And those ingredients in there are not supporting habits though, right? It’s just not supporting your body and being able to help. And so just going on walks and just really trying to, you know, find a more centered place of peace and really opening your mind to believe in miracles and believe that healing is possible. You know, your mind is the foundation of that battle. And so that’s free. No one has to tell you to charge, right? You know, this is how much it costs to change your mind. That’s not where it starts.

David Raubach: And speaking of miracles, I remember one of the first times I met you, you brought a book that had all these photos in it of you with your grandma. Am I saying that right? And talk a little bit about that because I feel like that contributed to your mindset going into treatment. I’ve seen, you said, I’ve seen miracles. What do you mean by that?

Michelle Raney: So, 14 years ago, my grandmother, 15 years ago now, my grandmother and grandfather both went through cancer treatment. And you know, over the years, I was like, “Oh yeah, this is really cool. My grandparents are here. They’re alive.” But it really didn’t hit home until I was in that same position as them. And so my grandmother was diagnosed with similar breast cancer and through a very long series of events ended up in a coma and brain dead. And she was there for in the hospital for about six weeks. She was on all the life support machines. Five different doctors had told my family, you know, she’s brain dead. She’s not waking up. Like, if she wakes up, it’s a miracle. And if she does, she will be severely handicapped. And so that’s, you know, and that was all because of cancer.

Michelle Raney: And so my family had decided on a Friday, that following Monday, they would take her off of life support. And so that following Saturday, my grandfather walks into the room and a doctor that we hadn’t been working with comes into the room and he picks up my grandmother’s chart and he says, “She’s going to wake up,” and sets it down and walks out of the room. And my grandfather walks to the charge station after him. And the doctor said, “Sir, I told you she’s going to wake up. You need to go back into the room.” And my grandmother slowly started to wake up. Like she started wiggling her toes and said, “Ouch.” Because my aunt was, you know, pinching, the, out of her. And it took months of rehab. But my grandmother’s here 15 years later. And it’s one of my best friends. But it was that, like, second opinion, honestly. Someone else came in and said she’s going to wake up.

David Raubach: Yeah. I mean and the fact that she woke up, I mean it was a miracle.

Michelle Raney: Yeah. And so just a couple months later, like four months later, my grandfather, her husband, was diagnosed with metastatic non small cell lung. And it had, aggressive, right? Very aggressive. The doctors told him, “Sir, you have about 90 days left to live. You need to get your affairs in order.” And he’s, you know, he went through chemotherapy and he’s here. That was what he did. He went through surgery. And he’s alive. And he’s here 15 years later. And so for me, my grandparents were such a foundation, such a rock for me throughout my own treatment. And I said, “Okay, this, I’ve seen this in my grandparents’ lives. I’ve seen them. I’ve seen my grandmother wake up. And I’ve seen my grandfather live 15 years past, 14 years past an expiration date. And I am, you know, 25, 26, 27, I have a long life to live. I have babies to make. I have a long marriage to have. And cancer will not kill me.”

Michelle Raney: And that was the mindset I had. And I told all of my doctors, I said, I don’t want to hear anything bad. I said, you know, I will live. Cancer will not kill me. And you know, it really was just putting a blinder on to everything else around me.

David Raubach: So, your mindset, I mean, your mindset is top priority and everything, right?

Michelle Raney: Yes, understanding your body, what your body’s saying is very important, but being able to come in with that mindset, right? Mind, body, it all connects. It is one of the biggest parts. And then because you’re able to trust your doctors too with their expertise and trust the medicine and when you have peace about going into a treatment, you just really have, I mean, you don’t really have another option, but you just get to relinquish and trust, right? And then you get to let your mind fight that battle.

David Raubach: So talk to us a little bit about deciding to do proton therapy versus traditional radiation. What were the decision points in that process?

Michelle Raney: Oh man, this one makes me laugh because I had interviewed one of the doctors at Proton and I had interviewed one of the doctors with traditional radiation at my facility and I knew, I mean, I was very dead set on coming to the Proton Center because I just, I looked into the research and understood the benefits of what it could provide for me.

David Raubach: So the breast cancer, before you were even diagnosed, right? You said you’re golfing, we have this, what is that? Oh, I got to look into that. But you kind of, in the back of your head, knew a little bit about the Proton Center.

Michelle Raney: We actually have some friends who, you know, 15 years ago, their son had a brain tumor and drove from Dallas to the Oklahoma Proton Center to receive treatment. And so, you know, it’s something that I was kind of familiar with, but just understanding its superiority specifically for me fighting a left side breast cancer, which was near my heart. And so when I was diagnosed and making the decisions, looking at the data that was there, okay, so it has less of an impact on your organs, your lungs and your heart. Well, the heart made sense because I just did a chemotherapy that is very difficult on your heart. So yeah, let’s do anything that we can to mitigate that heart damage.

Michelle Raney: And so I mean I was very set on proton unless there was something that the radiation doctor, you know, with Photon could tell me anything different. I was pretty set and having insurance approved Proton was also very big. So, I remember going to the radiation doctor at the traditional hospital and I gave him a run for his money, too. And it was funny, you know, I was bald as bald could be. And I sat there and I was like, “Okay, so tell me why this kind of radiation? What can you do? How is this going to protect my heart? How are we going to mitigate damage to my lungs? How are we going to spare other healthy tissue?” And you know he gave me some diagrams and he spoke to me about a couple of things but he really could not give me anything superior to the Proton Center.

Michelle Raney: And he had even at the very end of it he said, you know, are you interested in, you know, maybe pursuing some clinical trial studies, you know, there’s a place up in Ohio and I know they also have a proton center and I just I thought to myself I was like, “Yeah, right there.” I was like, “You’re silly, why would I, why would I travel that far?” And proton’s a proton, right? No matter where you get it.

David Raubach: Yeah. No matter where you get it.

Michelle Raney: And so I was pretty set on the Proton Center to begin with. When I knew I was going to pursue radiation, I was like, why wouldn’t I? It’s 15 minutes away from the house. That’s a blessing.

David Raubach: Well, and as you talked about, there is a physical difference with a proton and a photon.

Michelle Raney: Yeah.

David Raubach: Which manifests as a difference in exposure to healthy tissue, exposure to radiation, protons can be stopped. So when we deliver those protons into the body and we diagram and pick out where we want those protons to go, and in your case it was the left side of your chest, we can send those protons in at just the right energy such that they stop inside the treatment area and they don’t continue traveling. And when you have your heart beyond the treatment field on your left side, there’s a real risk of exposure to radiation, if you can’t stop that radiation. With photons, you can come in at a variety of different angles and do your best to try to avoid the heart, but at the end of the day, you can’t stop photon radiation inside the tumor. It’s going to keep traveling, and you are inevitably going to hit more healthy tissue with photons than with protons.

Michelle Raney: Exactly. Almost every single time.

David Raubach: And so that’s something I think that you’ve said that you knew and you figured out you’re gonna have less radiation exposure to the heart that’s already potentially undergone a lot of stress because of the chemotherapy. But I think I like what you said walking in to the radiation doctor and asking very radiation specific questions. How much radiation exposure am I going to get to my heart? How much radiation exposure am I going to get to my lungs? How are you going to control where this radiation is going? How do you know it’s going to go where you think it’s going?

Michelle Raney: Yeah, those are questions that every patient should ask. And I don’t think every patient does ask those questions, but those are questions that every patient should ask.

David Raubach: And then when you walk in to talk to the medical oncologist, what are the side effects that I might have because of this chemotherapy drug? Or are there other alternatives that maybe we aren’t exploring that we should talk about?

Michelle Raney: Yeah, exactly. And maybe there’s some red flags, too. If you’re going to a doctor who is so anti whatever it is, maybe that’s a problem. Do they know about this? And you really need to work through those questions, too. Am I at the place I need to be if this person is so opposed to proton therapy?

David Raubach: Right. Yeah. Just being able to have your information is so important and so many people don’t do it.

Michelle Raney: So many people don’t do it, but it’s so important to know your information.

David Raubach: So, you mentioned a few minutes ago you want to have babies.

Michelle Raney: Yes.

David Raubach: It is a reality for patients and for women going through a treatment like a treatment for cancer, especially when you’re doing chemotherapy and surgery and radiation. Those are things you really have to think about.

Michelle Raney: Yes.

David Raubach: How did you approach that process of thinking about, I still want to have a family, but there’s things that are going to be happening to my body that maybe are going to make that really challenging. Yeah. What did you do?

Michelle Raney: Yeah. So, it goes back to my OB/GYN. She and I have had a relationship prior to cancer, you know, about a year. And having a good relationship with your, you know, primary doctors is really important. You know, I know a lot of people don’t have to see a doctor and, you know, they’re healthy as a horse, but being able to have an established relationship really was in my benefit because my OB/GYN, she immediately reached out to the director of the fertility center here in Oklahoma City, which we have one, and it’s a six month waiting list. Unless you’re going through cancer, then you know, you kind of have a little bit more priority.

Michelle Raney: And she immediately started to talk to me about fertility and what that looked like and encouraged me to freeze my eggs. And so I started that, I mean four weeks after being diagnosed I started that process of retrieving, freezing, you know, my eggs, preparing the eggs, freezing, retrieving the eggs and freezing them. And so I have eggs just in case if I need them. I believe that maybe I won’t need them because maybe I won’t. But, you know, going through chemotherapy is very real of destroying your ovaries as a woman. And so, that is also a possibility. But, I’m thankful that I had the mentorship and advocacy from my OB/GYN to get eggs frozen. And, as you’re thinking about cancer, that’s a lot of times that’s maybe not something that you’re thinking about upfront.

David Raubach: Yeah. Maybe down the road, it’s something that will cross people’s minds, but you were very proactive in that approach.

Michelle Raney: Absolutely. And I think it’s also, you know, it’s very different because a lot of women who get diagnosed with cancer are, you know, deciding they’re not going to have any more babies or they’re already menopausal, right? It’s not typical to be 25, right? And to be thinking, I was like, at that time I was like, I’m not ready for a baby. And then I got the cancer diagnosis and I was like, my baby’s here.

David Raubach: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You have to think about that. So, one of the things that I think has bonded the two of you, Heather and Michelle, is a love of art.

Michelle Raney: Yes.

David Raubach: And Heather is a fantastic artist and does some amazing abstract paintings. And some of those paintings are hanging up at the Proton Center and at our breast center. But one of those paintings is actually hanging at your house.

Michelle Raney: Yes.

David Raubach: And I think this is a really neat story about how that painting came to hang at your house because there is a backstory to that painting even getting made. So, Heather and Michelle, why don’t you guys talk a little bit about how that painting ended up in your house and what it’s meant to you?

Heather Jacobson: Yeah. Well, so in my, I didn’t know you a lot while you were going through treatment, but I feel like we were at a time where we were trying to find patients willing to share their story. And Tessa, who’s our front desk concierge, she said, “Michelle is wonderful. She sits in the lobby. She talks to all the patients. You should meet her.” I met you. I fell in love with you. And so that was really my exposure to you at that time. Yeah. And then I’m getting ready to donate a piece for the Proton Pals Foundation. And I always try to write on all the canvases something. I don’t ever know what it means at the time, but I write it down and then it makes sense later.

Heather Jacobson: Yeah. And I might mess this up. You can help me with this because I was looking back trying to remember what the words were. It was, I wrote on the canvas some, even in the darkest skies, the brightest light shines, or the brightest star shines, something like that. And then I’m painting over it. Drop it off at Proton Pals. It spoke to you. I think you were there that night at our annual dinner and auction and you ended up going home with this painting and I’m like, this makes so much sense now that I know Michelle, you are a light, truly, and you were such a light to any patient you came across in the lobby, the staff, like, I don’t know that you know necessarily how much you did for us, like, I know we helped you but you helped us so much more, and I’m just blessed to know you.

Heather Jacobson: And I hope you know that you are such a light in this world, to, um, you say the older women who, how are your grandkids or how, you know, how’s your family, how’s your husband, but you can also talk to a 75 year old prostate cancer patient and meet them at that level. So, I hope you know that.

Michelle Raney: Thank you, Heather. That painting, when I saw it, I told my husband, I was like, “Oh my goodness, look at this.” Because for me, I have journaled the past three years and there was a specific moment when I was journaling right around that time and I had this visual picture and just for me at the time everything was dark. And you know I am so thankful I have had a positive mindset and have moved forward but it does not negate the dark and depressing and scary times and like just the soul-wrenching times. And that painting being just put to picture what I was feeling, like it was, it’s, was just dark but it was beautiful and there was a light that was breaking through this dark sky.

Michelle Raney: And for me it just encapsulated where I was at and because everything around you, you know, feels like death when it’s scary, right? And that painting, it just spoke volumes and it’s hanging up in my office. I love it. And it just gives a renewed sense of hope that no matter how deep, dark, and scary it gets, hope will just outshine that darkness. I mean, it starts as a small sliver, but hope radiates so thickly, so broadly, and miracles happen, healing happens. And so to be able to just keep your mind on that light, on that hope and these, like, glimmers of it, even it doesn’t have to be this huge overhead light that is bright and shining in your face all the time. It could just be like a glimmer of hope, and yes, your mindset speaks to that.

David Raubach: Thank you. Yeah. How did you find, and that’s a, that is such a beautiful story. And I think art is an important part of the healing process. And maybe even a bigger word is just beauty. Where are you finding beauty going through the process? Whether that’s nature, you talked about going on walks, is it music? Is it art? Is it relationships with other people? Is it relationships with your mom? Where are you finding those day-to-day moments of beauty today?

Michelle Raney: Yeah. Today, so for me is specifically with just like sitting with those hard feelings now. Because during the middle of the battle, right, you know, it got even worse, right? In December, I was told that cancer had spread to both sides of my lungs and to my bones and to inoperable lymph nodes. And at that time I was like, “Nope, we don’t have time to think about how scary this is because I’m focusing on healing, right? That’s where my eyes are at. I don’t want to think about anything else.” And because I had an objective in my mind. I’m going to heal. I’m going to heal.

Michelle Raney: And so for me now, I am definitely sitting in a place of sitting with those hard feelings and those scary times and just processing, right? Processing, allowing myself to be sad. And that was really hard and that was really scary and that was really painful. And looking back now, even just like seeing the pictures of everything I went through of being a bald, weird little bald stage, that was wild. And seeing the surgery, seeing the bone biopsies and just really feeling, you know, that diagnosis in December was worse than the initial diagnosis that I first received. And just like sitting with those times of like being in the MRI machines and crying because I was just so sad and your heart is breaking. But then for me, I put it on pause because healing is my objective. We’ll come back. And so for me, that’s where I’m at with it.

David Raubach: That’s such a setback. Yeah. When you think that you’re done with the process, you’re done with treatment, I’ve gotten through everything, I’ve taken the right approach, and then you get told that the cancer has come back. Yeah. I think you’ve touched on this a little bit, but what was going through your head in December as you’re told, we’ve done everything that we possibly can and there’s still cancer, it’s spread, we’re going to, you’re almost restarting at that point. What were you thinking?

Michelle Raney: Yeah. So I just finished, you know, all these treatments for, you know, all of 23, all of 24, more chemo, surgery, proton radiation. Finished that in September. And that was 300 plus appointments of proton radiation, was just supposed to be like precautionary, right, like just in case we’re going to zap out any cancer cells and just, you know, short, three months later to be told cancer spread. Oh, that was just heartbreaking. I mean, I was in public and I just, I broke down and I cried because it was just like you felt trapped. It was just like, oh my gosh, like I thought I was done and now I’m waking up and I’m still in this nightmare and how did cancer spread? I’ve just, I’ve done what feels like everything and this is really scary.

Michelle Raney: What else is there, like clinical trials that aren’t promising and you’re just, you know, trying to see what data can, you know, show. And it was just, you know, my heart broke and I had to be very protective at that time about who I spoke to around me because now to be told stage four metastatic breast cancer, it’s in your bones, it’s in your lungs, and at the time we didn’t know it was in my lungs, which I’m thankful for, but very wild. And really having to protect who I was talking to because at that point I know what data says about that, right? And I know what people say about that. And even my husband had come inside one night and he was crying. And it was December, last December, 2023, we had bad news. 2024 was bad news.

Michelle Raney: And he was telling me, “Michelle, I’m prepared for this to be my last Christmas with you.” And I was like, “Oh my goodness.” And I raised my voice and I said, “It will not be.” I said, “Cancer is not going to kill me.” And, but I had to even protect myself from the words that my husband was speaking because nope, I am not going to die and this will not be my last Christmas. And my objective was healing, and okay, it was diving into that faith because I’m so thankful for the Proton Center because my doctor was there. I mean, he knew I had a PET scan in December. He and his nurse were ready for it. As soon as they saw that news, he called me and he immediately said, “Okay, here’s my number. If you have any questions, call me,” and started a treatment plan to treat the cancer on my femur bone.

Michelle Raney: And immediately, and I am just so grateful for that because a week and a half later, I started proton radiation now on my femur. And it was just a wild wind of getting started back with it. And now I only did five treatments and I was like, we’re only doing five, this is a walk in the…

David Raubach: How many did you do?

Michelle Raney: I did like 32.

David Raubach: Okay. And so the first time, to the primary tumor in your breast, right?

Michelle Raney: In my breast and the neck, the clavicle.

David Raubach: We radiated a quarter of, a big area.

Michelle Raney: Yeah. And so we finished that and I was taking oral chemotherapy. And then on top of that with my integrative practices, whether that be through the different supplements and repurpose drugs and going out to my oncologist in California and doing these other tests and scans and, you know, IVs, just things to help support my body. And at that time, my mind was the biggest catalyst of, I am going to heal. And one of my oncologists had told me, “Michelle, there is not enough chemo, not enough radiation, treatment or surgery that will ever get rid of cancer.” And I remember I was crying and I told her, I said, “I believe now that I’m living a cancer-free life and I will be cancer-free for the rest of my life. Cancer will not kill me.”

David Raubach: And that’s crazy.

Michelle Raney: Yeah. Right. My bone hurts. I’m in pain. We’re looking at these scans that show cancer everywhere else, right? And telling her, “No, I am going to live.”

David Raubach: Wow.

Michelle Raney: And you know, I had a follow-up PET scan less than 90 days later, and that PET scan was a miracle, and it showed no cancer.

David Raubach: Incredible.

Michelle Raney: I remember doctor, my doctors called me, and I was like, “This is what?” I was like, “No, there has to be something around the corner.” And you know, I had a PET scan this last May. No sign of cancer.

David Raubach: That’s amazing. And a miracle, right?

Michelle Raney: Yeah. Right. It’s a miracle. And I’m thankful for my doctors. I’m thankful for medicine. I’m thankful for the integrative medicines. But your mind is so powerful and it dictates, it is like that rudder to your ship. Though it’s small, it dictates what direction you’re going to go.

David Raubach: That’s an incredible story. And it’s like speechless over like where to even go from. I mean, that’s why we wanted to talk to you today because I think there’s unfortunately so many patients that are dealing with not only that first diagnosis, but then the recurrence.

Michelle Raney: Yeah.

David Raubach: And lost, have lost hope.

Michelle Raney: Yeah.

David Raubach: You never gave up hope. And it’s devastating. And there is a reality with cancer. We know that, right? There’s, it’s, there’s just going to be situations where the cancer is so aggressive and it’s so widespread that there’s just nothing that you can do, no matter all of the integrative medicine and the traditional treatments and the clinical trials. We know that and that’s just the devastating, horrific reality of this disease of cancer. But I also think it’s so important for people to know those stories of hope and optimism and also know the mental mindset and mental fortitude that maybe it can take or needs to take to get through a recurrence or the cancer spreading. Yeah. How are you doing today? I mean, you talked about you had the scan in May. What is treatment or what is the process look like for Michelle Raney today?

Michelle Raney: Today it looks like I’m very confident and all my doctors I still give them a run for their money. And I still take oral chemotherapy pills and I take, you know, some hormone blockers and ovary suppressants because I’m 27 and it’s just what I have to do. And with that, you know, I still take a lot of supplements. I still prioritize my health and rest and food and juices. And so right now is still very healing. Like even though I’ve received clean PET scans, I refuse to just jump back straight into the like grind, this hustle culture. That’s not how we were meant to live, right? And especially, you know, I went through a very long battle. The last thing I’m doing is jumping into something and stressing myself out all over again.

Michelle Raney: And just really taking time to heal and sit with those emotions and just take it step by step. You know, some of my oncologists tell me they want me on chemotherapy medicine for, you know, indefinitely. And I know that’s not the case because realistically, you can’t be on chemotherapy medicine your whole life because it’s still toxic. And so for me, you know, I’m just taking it day by day. And for me, I really believe in just like following the peace and understanding like, you know, still keeping myself informed of other medicines out there, of other practices, but just following peace of what needs to happen. And so I’ll know when it’s time to switch medicines or stop medicines and just really following peace with it. And it’s exciting.

Michelle Raney: I tell all my doctors, I say, “Look at this,” this, you know, I do a monthly blood test, a specific blood test, and it comes back negative every month, which is a good thing, and I say, “Look, it’s negative, and it’s going to be negative forever.”

David Raubach: Yeah.

Michelle Raney: Because I’m healed.

David Raubach: Yeah.

Michelle Raney: And cancer will never come back. And now, it’s also my part to ensure that, right? Like, I don’t drink alcohol. I might have one drink on a very blue moon, but alcohol is classified as a class one carcinogen. And studies show that even having one glass of alcohol, one drink, pull up my notes, one drink a day gives you a 10% increased risk of breast cancer. This is just breast cancer. Having more than three drinks per day increases your chance for breast cancer by 30 to 50%.

David Raubach: And college Michelle would have a different, would have had a different take to that.

Michelle Raney: But today, you know, so just doing the things that I can to help keep a healthy lifestyle and support my body.

David Raubach: And I would say, you know, we had the opportunity to be a little part of Michelle’s journey at the Proton Center, but Heather, I think it’s fair to say that she’s almost impacted us more than we impacted her.

Heather Jacobson: A little bit of treatment. Sometimes the things that you get bogged down by, whether that’s your job, a promotion you didn’t get, whatever it is. Your dog ran away. I do that all the time. Little things. But then I have to put things in perspective and you’re going through it and you, cancer will not define me. It is not me. That I could use more of that in my life. I think all of us could get emotional even thinking about it because you are such a, like I said, a light to me.

Michelle Raney: Thank you.

David Raubach: Yes. And I would attest to everything that you just said, Heather. Thank you so much for sharing your story today, Michelle. Any last words of encouragement for people out there that maybe would be listening to this that are going through that cancer journey, even just starting on that journey?

Michelle Raney: Yes. I have two bits of encouragement. The second one, start, the second one is do your research. Like whether it’s your spouse doing the research or you yourself doing the research, your mom, family, do your research. And look at cancer as a whole body approach. It’s important for you to know what’s going on and if you decide to pursue integrative medicine, don’t just take advice from TikTok and Instagram.

David Raubach: Yeah, Dr. Google.

Michelle Raney: Yeah. And incorporate just like the daily good habits that we need to all practice anyways. And my second piece of, or my first piece of advice is, believe in miracles. Believe in healing. Believe that you can heal. There is no place too far gone that you can go that you can’t return from. Right? I saw my brain dead grandmother wake back up because of cancer and she woke back up. There’s no place too far gone and I’ve seen it. And so you just have to believe in miracles. Believe that your body can heal because when you believe you’re a conductor for that, right? If you are closed off and the lights off, it’s shut off. But as soon as you, like, flip that switch and you have that ability to conduct and believe, I can be well, I can be healed, you allow for that light to just shine through and that healing to shine through.

David Raubach: Thank you so much, Michelle. You are an example of why we should believe in miracles and here’s to being cancer-free.

Michelle Raney: Thank you.

David Raubach: The rest of your life and to having lots of babies. Thank you so much for joining us today.

Michelle Raney: Thank you, David. Thank you, Heather.